Also - I wonder if there is a possibility that a handful of independent continuity Corbyn MPs or Mayors getting elected could form a nucleus of a new democratic socialist party. IMO Starmer represents almost nobody and relies on constrained choices, but Corbyn's Labour was genuinely popular amongst a significant demographic. There's an opportunity here I think. Getting Jamie Driscoll re-elected as an independent Mayor and unseating Starmer with a left candidate, if combined with a couple of other independent left candidates around the country, could form the basis for a new left Party with experience in government and I think it would quickly surpass Labour's membership and bring over a fair few councillors and MPs as defections.
Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
- Start date
Whagwan
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Especially odd he's claiming this now given they sent out Thornberry and Lammy to push the exact same line...
Good on you, Eric Jarvis — I hope you grind Starmer into the dirt and we see him crying on TV.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You say a high student population. But I don't think the students in the ucl and university of London halls of residence in Holborn and St Pancras are going to be as exercised as you suggest - altho it'd be grand if they were. My money's on shammer being re-elected with a rather reduced majority, maybe 10-15k(Copied this response across the Israel thread to avoid derailing it)
You are wrong, because it isn't just about how it effects people's votes, but it is inherently destabilising to the Labour Party because Corbyn and his supporters were railroaded based on the idea that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Israel conducting ethnic cleansing against Gaza - which they are, it seems almost certain they will annex North Gaza having already violently driven a million people from their homes - will be seem as vindicating Corbyn in speaking up for Palestine, and potentially reignite Labour's civil war. The resignations of councillors is likely only the beginning of it.
Starmer emails all councillors over Israel-Gaza as party tensions grow - LabourList
Horror in Gaza Since our email was sent out this morning, Keir Starmer has written to all Labour…labourlist.org
I know in my local area, popular North of Tyne mayor Jamie Driscoll was denied standing for re-election due to extremely tenuous accusations of anti-semitism - basically he shared a stage with Ken Loach and talked about movies instead of berating him for "anti-semitism" because he refused to disown all Labour members expelled from the Party based on frequently (but not always) tenuous allegations of anti-semitism. So opponents of Starmer were expelled for anti-semitism on spurious grounds for supporting Palestine. Ken Loach said it was a politically motivated purge so therefore he is anti-semitic and was expelled. Jamie Driscoll talked to Ken Loach about movies instead of berating him for being anti-semitic so therefore he is himself anti-semitic and was denied running for re-election despite local popularity and success.
Driscoll will be standing as an independent and taking most of the local Labour Party campaigners with him. This gives more energy to his campaign. And this is just one local area, I believe there are similar fissures and tensions in local Labour Parties around the country and this moves these tensions significantly closer to boiling point. As discussed on the Keir Starmer thread, there is also an attempt to unseat Starmer with an independent continuity Corbyn candidate in a constituency which is 30% Muslim and also with a high student population. I'm sure there are other manifestations of this tension around the country.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
I'm not one for electoral politics but I'd find this funny as fuck.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It'd be excellent.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Unlikely though 
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Excellent points well made but I find it hard to believe that the general public will take this as a factor into how they vote come the next election (by which time this story will be largely off the top of the news) Not when there are other more important issues (ie ones that affect them personally) to consider.(Copied this response across the Israel thread to avoid derailing it)
You are wrong, because it isn't just about how it effects people's votes, but it is inherently destabilising to the Labour Party because Corbyn and his supporters were railroaded based on the idea that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Israel conducting ethnic cleansing against Gaza - which they are, it seems almost certain they will annex North Gaza having already violently driven a million people from their homes - will be seem as vindicating Corbyn in speaking up for Palestine, and potentially reignite Labour's civil war. The resignations of councillors is likely only the beginning of it.
Starmer emails all councillors over Israel-Gaza as party tensions grow - LabourList
Horror in Gaza Since our email was sent out this morning, Keir Starmer has written to all Labour…
I know in my local area, popular North of Tyne mayor Jamie Driscoll was denied standing for re-election due to extremely tenuous accusations of anti-semitism - basically he shared a stage with Ken Loach and talked about movies instead of berating him for "anti-semitism" because he refused to disown all Labour members expelled from the Party based on frequently (but not always) tenuous allegations of anti-semitism. So opponents of Starmer were expelled for anti-semitism on spurious grounds for supporting Palestine. Ken Loach said it was a politically motivated purge so therefore he is anti-semitic and was expelled. Jamie Driscoll talked to Ken Loach about movies instead of berating him for being anti-semitic so therefore he is himself anti-semitic and was denied running for re-election despite local popularity and success.
Driscoll will be standing as an independent and taking most of the local Labour Party campaigners with him. This gives more energy to his campaign. And this is just one local area, I believe there are similar fissures and tensions in local Labour Parties around the country and this moves these tensions significantly closer to boiling point. As discussed on the Keir Starmer thread, there is also an attempt to unseat Starmer with an independent continuity Corbyn candidate in a constituency which is 30% Muslim and also with a high student population. I'm sure there are other manifestations of this tension around the country.
I think you're right in that it will cause him difficulties within the short to medium term within his own party but the Labour Party have a long and glorious history in fighting amongst themselves. But get a sniff of power and they will rally around the one candidate that looks like their best chance of getting it.
As for the OCISA candidate (assuming they find one) running against Starmer to try and unseat him well that is an idea that is so gloriously bonkers that I personally am really rooting for it to succeed.
However I will be amazed (and will happily come back and admit it if i'm wrong) if they manage to keep their deposit let alone unseat Starmer.
I expect Starmer's personal vote share to probably go up at the next GE, there were 8000 votes for the Tories at the last one. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them didn't switch to him at the next GE due to a) being pissed off with the Tories and b) the realisation that they are most likely personally voting for the next PM
andysays
Love and solidarity
Yeah, I understand why Corbyn can't give you his formal backing.
In case it wasn't clear, I'm not knocking what you're doing, I'm just not as optimistic as you appear to be about your chances of success.
There’s no way you can undertake this kind of hard work without maintaining a base level of optimism. The last thing they need is people telling them they’ve lost before they’ve even tried. And you know what? Sometimes miracles do actually happen
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
I'm somebody who has been out on the street and on the doorsteps in the constituency for months. I started out thinking it was going to be a real struggle. Getting people to vote is going to be easy, they just need to know there is an alternative and they get quite enthusiastic. The hard bit is getting people to stop thinking about politics as something that only happens on TV and therefore is entirely out of our hands, and get out on the street delivering leaflets, conversing with people, and doing the spadework needed to get a message across when you can't get access to mass media. The problem IS pessimism and the apathy that comes from it. Unfortunately the MOST demotivated people seem to be the expelled or resigned former members of Holborn St Pancras CLP. Which speaks to how pernicious the influence of Starmer and his acolytes has been.
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
It isn't about the general public across the entire UK. It is solely about what the voters in Holborn St Pancras do at the election. Do you really think the 10,000 plus Muslim voters there will have forgotten what Starmer has been saying over the past few days. Keeping the deposit is a certainty. From here on it is just about getting another 10,000 voters on board in order to win.
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
UCL students are going to be a very mixed bag. It's pretty much the poshest college in the University of London. It actually has significant numbers of died in the wool Tory students. LSE on the other hand may not be what it was in terms of leftists, but they have a lot of politically engaged and astute students. Central St Martins students tend not to be politically active so much, but they are being taught to abhor conformity for conformity's sake. It's nearly 25% of Starmer's electorate if they all register to vote there. We don't need even a majority of them.
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced he is human enough to cry. I will settle for him being out of politics.
"Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will."
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
If people are prepared to get on board and work locally it won't just be a couple. There will likely be at least one or maybe two in Liverpool, at least one in Newham, a very high probability of one in Bristol. There are already moves to get things happening in Streatham and North Croydon (hopefully of particular interest to Urbanites), Bermondsey. Bournemouth East, Sedgefield, Wolverhampton West, and those are just the ones I know bout that have a good chance. Include Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and Emma Dent Coad and there is every chance of at least double figures if people get off the sofa and stop just watching it all on TV. There are at least 40 seats that could be conceivably taken by a left of Labour party. There are CLPs around the country with only a handful of active members down from, in some places, well over a hundred. In the Somerton and Frome by election the Labour Party there had a grand total of one member who had ever previously done any active campaigning at all. Now that was in what amounts to Tory Central. However the same is now true in a number of the "red wall" seats. Those are wide open in an election where the Tories will be trying to hang on to "safe" seats in the south.
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
Sedgefield, Copeland, Broxtowe, Wolverhampton West, and that's just off the top of my head. Not to mention Liverpool. Kick most of the experienced activists out of a CLP and who goes knocking on doors. Fine if it is a by election and you can bus people in from all over the country, but even that didn't work in Uxbridge, it can't be done at a general election if there are enough constituencies being challenged.(Copied this response across the Israel thread to avoid derailing it)
You are wrong, because it isn't just about how it effects people's votes, but it is inherently destabilising to the Labour Party because Corbyn and his supporters were railroaded based on the idea that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Israel conducting ethnic cleansing against Gaza - which they are, it seems almost certain they will annex North Gaza having already violently driven a million people from their homes - will be seem as vindicating Corbyn in speaking up for Palestine, and potentially reignite Labour's civil war. The resignations of councillors is likely only the beginning of it.
Starmer emails all councillors over Israel-Gaza as party tensions grow - LabourList
Horror in Gaza Since our email was sent out this morning, Keir Starmer has written to all Labour…
I know in my local area, popular North of Tyne mayor Jamie Driscoll was denied standing for re-election due to extremely tenuous accusations of anti-semitism - basically he shared a stage with Ken Loach and talked about movies instead of berating him for "anti-semitism" because he refused to disown all Labour members expelled from the Party based on frequently (but not always) tenuous allegations of anti-semitism. So opponents of Starmer were expelled for anti-semitism on spurious grounds for supporting Palestine. Ken Loach said it was a politically motivated purge so therefore he is anti-semitic and was expelled. Jamie Driscoll talked to Ken Loach about movies instead of berating him for being anti-semitic so therefore he is himself anti-semitic and was denied running for re-election despite local popularity and success.
Driscoll will be standing as an independent and taking most of the local Labour Party campaigners with him. This gives more energy to his campaign. And this is just one local area, I believe there are similar fissures and tensions in local Labour Parties around the country and this moves these tensions significantly closer to boiling point. As discussed on the Keir Starmer thread, there is also an attempt to unseat Starmer with an independent continuity Corbyn candidate in a constituency which is 30% Muslim and also with a high student population. I'm sure there are other manifestations of this tension around the country.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Absolutely they will why shouldn't they? This gives the vague impression of someone writing Muslim on a yellow sticky, sticking it on the foreheads of 10,000 people and declaring that they are the same and always will be. They're not, you wouldn't assume 10,000 white people would vote the same now and a year from now because they're all white people why assume it of the Muslim population? I daresay some of them even have voted Tory.
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
Potential candidates are being asked to take that 2019 Manifesto as a basis of where they are coming from, the selection process will be based on criteria that are more about values and competences than specific policies. Once selected the candidate will get briefing on policy areas but pretty much be deciding their own priorities, the idea is to work this on the basis of listening to the local electorate, use expertise from various sources (we have some pretty high powered volunteers to do this already, no names because some of them are still in the Labour Party) to turn their concerns into things that can realistically be pushed for, and then present those ideas back to them rather than creating a complete set of policies and trying to persuade people to vote for them. It's about approach and values because it is just trying to get one MP elected and not about trying to form a government.
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
Some of them are Tory and often on a fairly committed basis. However we don't need all of them. 10.000 isn't the number of Muslim voters in the constituency. That's about twice as many. It's an estimate of the number of people in the Muslim community groups that have contacted us.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think you badly underestimate the anger about what is happening in Gaza. In Holborn St Pan, there are significant Bengali and Somali communities. They're tight-knit so calling them a 'community' is fair. And I have no doubt that a sizeable number of them were on the march for Palestine last Saturday.
Galloway defeated Labour's pro-war King in 2005 in a largely Bengali constituency on the back of anger at the Iraq War. This could have a similar galvanising effect. I still think it is a mountain to climb, but the idea that Muslim voters in Holborn St Pan will just forget what is happening now is way off.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He's a typical Labour right winger in this regard. He hates the left of the Labour Party more than he hates the Tories.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Too little, too late. He condoned/greenlighted Israeli war crimes/breaches of international law, which would have been awful from any British political leader, but from a former human rights barrister and former DPP is inexcusable. His position is untenable.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Yes. He didn't clarify or correct immediately. He only did so * after * thousands of Muslims signed a letter and several Labour Party councillors resigned over the issue.
Screams political expediency rather than any consideration or care about human rights and preventing breaches of international law and a worsening humanitarian crisis.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
Indeed. Martin Bell unseated Neil Hamilton, Mhairi Black unseated Douglas Alexander and Jared O'Mara unseated Nick Clegg. A week is a long time in politics etc etc.
If the leadership changed tomorrow he'd still take a seat in his fucking cabinet though. The open collared shirt full of shit.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
We're just one week away from 'I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire".
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Is the punchline a slogan on behalf of some beer?
Like "I wouldn't wave to Jeremy Crumbles across the street, but I would drink a tin of Specklepiss"
Like "I wouldn't wave to Jeremy Crumbles across the street, but I would drink a tin of Specklepiss"
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