Keir Starmer's time is up

[Raheem]

I'd like to know how much of the abuse she undoubtedly got on social media came from Labour party members, and how much of that abuse was valid criticism of her political views.

In rare cases, it might have been both.

 

[two sheds]

first case I might agree with you (although I've not seen figures). Second case too? There's a fair amount of political abuse on here that I'd have thought could be repurposed as personal abuse.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I'd like to know how much of the abuse she undoubtedly got on social media came from Labour party members, and how much of that abuse was valid criticism of her political views.

To be fair to Berger, the vast majority of abuse she got was from neo-Nazis such as Garron Helm, who was jailed. After this National Action encouraged Nazis worldwide, including the US, to abuse her further. Many did.

Members of her local party had concerns about her politics (she was a parachuted in Blairite with no Liverpool connections) but of course as a Blairite she didnt care.

It is vital to distinguish between legitimate political criticism of Berger and vile misogynist snti-semitism.

It of course suits Starmerite scum to equate the two things: what I wish for Starmer is a quick political death after winning the next election, when his fawning red-baiting politics and economic illiteracy unravel.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I'd like to know how much of the abuse she undoubtedly got on social media came from Labour party members, and how much of that abuse was valid criticism of her political views.

To be fair to Berger, the vast majority of abuse she got was from neo-Nazis such as Garron Helm, who was jailed. After this National Action encouraged Nazis worldwide, including the US, to abuse her further. Many did.

Members of her local party had concerns about her politics (she was a parachuted in Blairite with no Liverpool connections) but of course as a Blairite she didnt care.

It is vital to distinguish between legitimate political criticism of Berger and vile misogynist snti-semitism.

It of course suits Starmerite scum to equate the two things: what I wish for Starmer is a quick political death after winning the next election, when his fawning red-baiting politics and economic illiteracy unravel.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

To be fair to Berger, the vast majority of abuse she got was from neo-Nazis such as Garron Helm, who was jailed. After this National Action encouraged Nazis worldwide, including the US, to abuse her further. Many did.

Members of her local party had concerns about her politics (she was a parachuted in Blairite with no Liverpool connections) but of course as a Blairite she didnt care.

It is vital to distinguish between legitimate political criticism of Berger and vile misogynist snti-semitism.

It of course suits Starmerite scum to equate the two things: what I wish for Starmer is a quick political death after winning the next election, when his fawning red-baiting politics and economic illiteracy unravel.

You're not being fair, though. She and others on the right claimed that the Labour Party was overrun by leftwing anti-semites. That the anti semitic abuse was overwhelmingly from within Labour. Which it wasn't. That claim was used by the Labour right to help destroy Corbyn's chances. Berger still makes the same claim, as does Starmer and his cronies. As is now clear there is no evidence of such claims being true.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Simulate talking with Keir Starmer by trying to engage chatgpt AI in an argument.

 

[PR1Berske]

So hang on.. You can't be a Labour member if you liked one of the ever expanding list of proscribed organisations once on twitter, but you can leave and form a whole other party and then come back?

Cool cool.

That she stood against an official Labour candidate would be enough to expel her but.....times are different.

 

[Pickman's model]

That she stood against an official Labour candidate would be enough to expel her but.....times are different.

We will find the tory party to the left of the labour party shortly

 

[Larry O'Hara]

You're not being fair, though. She and others on the right claimed that the Labour Party was overrun by leftwing anti-semites. That the anti semitic abuse was overwhelmingly from within Labour. Which it wasn't. That claim was used by the Labour right to help destroy Corbyn's chances. Berger still makes the same claim, as does Starmer and his cronies. As is now clear there is no evidence of such claims being true.

Can you read? I ask this because Berger herself was specifically targetted by National Action: and their US allies.

I very clearly distinguished that genuine anti-semitism from what I have often (including on this site) referred to as the false charge of antisemitism levelled at Corbynistas.

Nothing more to say other than get your facts right before misrepresenting me

 

[Serene]

Starmer wont be pleased this year as he will have to go up North and meet " the plebs ". He will take his white ford transit van with a St. Georges flag hanging out of the window, and head up there, driving very close to cyclists and blocking peoples driveways on the way.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Can you read? I ask this because Berger herself was specifically targetted by National Action: and their US allies.

I very clearly distinguished that genuine anti-semitism from what I have often (including on this site) referred to as the false charge of antisemitism levelled at Corbynistas.

Nothing more to say other than get your facts right before misrepresenting me

No need to get so stroppy. You started off saying 'to be fair to Berger'. I'm saying fairness has got nothing to do with the way that she and others used anti-semitism as a weapon against Corbyn and the left. She knew that wasn't true.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

No need to get so stroppy. You started off saying 'to be fair to Berger'. I'm saying fairness has got nothing to do with the way that she and others used anti-semitism as a weapon against Corbyn and the left. She knew that wasn't true.

Yes I know that about Berger: but you have not acknowledged explicitly that she was personally targeted by vile neo-Nazis.
This does not mean I am not aware of her key personal role in weaponising anti-semitism. Nor do I approve of it.
But enough already: I suspect you are not amenable to rational discussion, but for the benefit of others would point out that Leftists ignoring/downplaying genuine anti-semitism actually is very helpful to Starmers witch-hunt

 

[Shechemite]

The Labour right versus you wankers never was an even fight was it.

 

[sleaterkinney]

You're not being fair, though. She and others on the right claimed that the Labour Party was overrun by leftwing anti-semites. That the anti semitic abuse was overwhelmingly from within Labour. Which it wasn't. That claim was used by the Labour right to help destroy Corbyn's chances. Berger still makes the same claim, as does Starmer and his cronies. As is now clear there is no evidence of such claims being true.

Margaret Tyson is Wavertree Constituency Labour Party's (CLP) elected representative on Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Campaign Forum and a speaker at the Labour Party Conference accused her of supporting the "Zionist Israeli government" whose "Nazi masters taught them well".

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Yes I know that about Berger: but you have not acknowledged explicitly that she was personally targeted by vile neo-Nazis.
This does not mean I am not aware of her key personal role in weaponising anti-semitism. Nor do I approve of it.
But enough already: I suspect you are not amenable to rational discussion, but for the benefit of others would point out that Leftists ignoring/downplaying genuine anti-semitism actually is very helpful to Starmers witch-hunt

You seem to think you know an awful lot about me. I haven't directly acknowledged her being targeted by neo-Nazis. I shouldn't need to. My whole point is that the overwhelming majority of anti-Semitic abuse originated and originates from the far right. Of course there are and have been a few cases of Labour anti-semitism, but, as has been well documented elsewhere, it occurs far less than in other parties. Yes, kick the buggers out, of course. But to claim that there was an explosion of anti- semitism after Corbyn took over is just crap.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Margaret Tyson is Wavertree Constituency Labour Party's (CLP) elected representative on Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Campaign Forum and a speaker at the Labour Party Conference accused her of supporting the "Zionist Israeli government" whose "Nazi masters taught them well".

She doesn't sound like she's worth the time of day. But she is one person, who I am sure did not get elected as a representative on the basis of the comment you quote. Jewish Voice for Labour (yeah, tankies, I know) have detailed quite extensively just how many Jews have been expelled from the party for being antisemitic and similar stuff. That should be worrying everyone. Non-Zionist Jews being targeted specifically.

 

[Dystopiary]

"weaponising antisemitism"

 

[hitmouse]

No need to get so stroppy. You started off saying 'to be fair to Berger'. I'm saying fairness has got nothing to do with the way that she and others used anti-semitism as a weapon against Corbyn and the left. She knew that wasn't true.

So are you objecting to Larry O'Hara saying "to be fair to Berger" on the grounds that Berger was not fair to Corbyn? You do understand that Larry O'Hara, Berger and Corbyn are three different people, right?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

So are you objecting to Larry O'Hara saying "to be fair to Berger" on the grounds that Berger was not fair to Corbyn? You do understand that Larry O'Hara, Berger and Corbyn are three different people, right?

Well that explains a lot. There was me thinking it was just a series of nicknames for one person.

I do wonder how exactly to be fair to somebody who knowingly blames the wrong people for abuse that they receive from someone else.

 

[hitmouse]

Well that explains a lot. There was me thinking it was just a series of nicknames for one person.

I do wonder how exactly to be fair to somebody who knowingly blames the wrong people for abuse that they receive from someone else.

At least a bit, if you want to hold yourself to higher ethical standards than that person?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

At least a bit, if you want to hold yourself to higher ethical standards than that person?

What does that actually mean?

 

[hitmouse]

What does that actually mean?

Oh, I misread word order - I read your problem as "I do wonder exactly how fair to be to somebody" rather than "I do wonder how exactly to be fair to somebody". If you're wondering how to be fair, rather than how fair to be, then I'd refer you back to Larry's comment above as a starting point:

It is vital to distinguish between legitimate political criticism of Berger and vile misogynist anti-semitism.

More generally, I think that just because someone doesn't behave in an honest and decent way, doesn't mean that you don't have to behave in an honest and decent way towards/when discussing them, which is what you seemed to be disputing?

 

[Knotted]

That will be Luciana Berger (former?) MD of Edelman. PR on behalf of Walmart and climate change deniers.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Luciana Berger is a horrible person but that doesn't make it OK that she gets anti-semitic abuse from the far right does it. Surely that's obvious and should go for anyone in whatever position?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Brain dead revisionist nonsense from Streeting

 

[magneze]

Yes, listened to that at the weekend.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Oh, I misread word order - I read your problem as "I do wonder exactly how fair to be to somebody" rather than "I do wonder how exactly to be fair to somebody". If you're wondering how to be fair, rather than how fair to be, then I'd refer you back to Larry's comment above as a starting point:

It is vital to distinguish between legitimate political criticism of Berger and vile misogynist anti-semitism.

More generally, I think that just because someone doesn't behave in an honest and decent way, doesn't mean that you don't have to behave in an honest and decent way towards/when discussing them, which is what you seemed to be disputing?

Bleeding heck. All I was saying is that fairness is in short supply in the Labour Party right now, and has been since long before Corbyn's demise. Berger and her ilk deliberately conflated the anti-Semitic abuse they received, nearly all from outside the party, with criticism from within the party, nearly all from the left and nearly all anti Zionist. This was deliberate.
I always assume that the vast majority of Labour Party members will have some knowledge of political matters and some knowledge of Hitler and the Nazis. They will have nothing in common with the Nazi world view and will probably know that socialists, communists and trade unionists were among the very first victims of Hitler's regime. When Labour's right start claiming that it was normal in Labour circles to praise Hitler you just know they are making it up.

 

[Shechemite]

What you need to do Kev is go on Twitter with all your mates and tell that Mrs Berger in no uncertain terms how cross you are with these antisemitism claims and how it was all a scam. That’ll put this horrible business to bed

 

[Shechemite]

Deffo tag her in. She’ll get the message then

 

[Shechemite]

Turn up outside her meetings too with one of those Latuff cartoons made into a big flag. One more push comrade