belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Tell me then. Why do they regularly pay for training from Israeli forces?
Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I wonder if, in a time of loons choosing to ignore all sorts of stuff and leave connections just hanging in the air...it might be best for SOCIALISTS not to play that game.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yeah, but you know who does dat etc
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The research into where else budgets have gone is ongoing i suspect.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Mass stupidity all round.
MP repeats something gaining ground in luvvie circles (see Roger Waters nuttiness earlier this month - or don't, it's worse) that neatly deflects attention and misses the point of focusing on American policing that has always been racist without any help.
RLB retweets without thinking too hard. Just fucking stay off Twitter for one. And think.
Labour right revels in forensic Starmer's decisive leadership. Supported by Tories who are gleeful attention has been switched from Jenrick's corruption.
People on here (sorry, you LDC) give the impression that a multi-billion pound training industry that yes, sometimes produces nothing for the sake of the money going round, doesn't really exist. Because that would be silly.
Just another day in paradise.
MP repeats something gaining ground in luvvie circles (see Roger Waters nuttiness earlier this month - or don't, it's worse) that neatly deflects attention and misses the point of focusing on American policing that has always been racist without any help.
RLB retweets without thinking too hard. Just fucking stay off Twitter for one. And think.
Labour right revels in forensic Starmer's decisive leadership. Supported by Tories who are gleeful attention has been switched from Jenrick's corruption.
People on here (sorry, you LDC) give the impression that a multi-billion pound training industry that yes, sometimes produces nothing for the sake of the money going round, doesn't really exist. Because that would be silly.
Just another day in paradise.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
You're missing my point. They do train with lots of other countries, Israel included. Not normal US beat cops with Mossad or other secret services though, and Israel isn't to blame for this killing in any way.
Making those links above and beyond other countries training with the US, and suggesting the secret services of Israel (with all the conspiraloon stuff about Mossad as context) are responsible for this as they trained US cops how to do this technique is bonkers.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
So if she had just not said ‘secret service’ everything would be groovy? It’s a massive stretch to say she was claiming Israel was responsible for his death. It seems pretty clear she was just pointing out the interrelated, worldwide, systematised racism employed by police forces.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
"...she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”
Bonkers at best tbh. Whether RLB should have been sacked is different question TBH, I don't care either way really.
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agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Not sure how the sentence after the one mentioning a massive stretch isn't itself a massive stretch, tbh.
Steel Icarus
we move
Ironic that the Peake article said people should be allowed to make mistakes but should be able to learn from and have a dialogue,not just get pilloried
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Why politicians are on there at all is a mystery to me. Not like they ever have a good day on twitter is it? Best case scenario is you avoid a career-ending fuckup and the resulting dogpile.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
The claim by Peake was factually untrue, and if you can't see the slip into conspiracism by bringing in 'secret services' when that's not true, and claiming they teach kneeling on necks when that's probably not true, then I guess that is one reason Labour has had such problems dealing with claims of anti-semitism.
As for RLB, the stupidity in retweeting this isn't quite Livingstone-level, but it's high enough not to elicit much sympathy from me.
Starmer's still an arsehole, obv, but if Labour wants to try to be a left wing party again their pool of talent is going to have to grow, and include people who don't retweet dodgy claims about Israeli influence.
As for RLB, the stupidity in retweeting this isn't quite Livingstone-level, but it's high enough not to elicit much sympathy from me.
Starmer's still an arsehole, obv, but if Labour wants to try to be a left wing party again their pool of talent is going to have to grow, and include people who don't retweet dodgy claims about Israeli influence.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I know. It must be like playing daily Russian roulette with your career and social life for some of them.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
sorry you are howling at the moon
I thought the left were supposed to be the conspiraloons
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
It's totally implausible to assume that a state which has spent decades occupying land and keeping the locals under their boots, would have any skills or experience to share with friendly foreign powers. Especially if those powers have police forces that act like occupying armies while on their home turf.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
In terms of entry points into this discussion, I happen to agree with that - yes, it's a reasonable statement. Question is whether it's true and that the specific group of US cops did get this training (or that similar techniques were passed on to their Department). There's a fairly simple empirical question at the heart of this. Needless to say, I don't know the answer to that.
But then this will never play out as an empirical question on the left. If we'd been able to get rid of the conspiracists and associated fuckwits, 'the left' would have been able to have a reasonable discussion, that was able to draw distinctions between AS and criticisms of the state of Israel - and would be able to insert some decent politics into that gap. That failure means this is a rinse and repeat spin cycle.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I doubt there's a police force on earth that doesn't occasionally kneel on someone's neck, it's not an astonishing revelation that it's a very good way of enforcing compliance - it's also not something that the Mossad or Shin Bet, or the Saryet Maktal will have taught to a bunch of plod in Buttfuck, Illinois.
The AS aspect with this is the obsession with Israel - like no one else in the world would think of kneeling on someone's neck without the Israeli's giving them the idea - and the 'secret services' stuff, which runs like a feotid river through the anti-Semitic swamp.
bimble
floofy
Didn’t realise the thing actually said it that explicitly. Israeli secret services are responsible for that American policemen getting the idea that he should kneel on George Floyd's neck basically. That is properly mental.
RLB's sacking is probably great for Starmer, especially right now when Johnson continues to defend the several dickheads around him who have done loads worse that press retweet on something they probably didn't read all that carefully.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
On your second paragraph (this isn’t about Maxine Peake which you cover in your first) do you seriously want to make an argument that RLB retweeted it to draw attention to the final paragraph? If not, then explain how exactly, objectively, it’s a sacking offence?
I don’t understand your third paragraph. Are you arguing that Starmer has sacked her as part of his efforts to make Labour ‘a left wing party again’?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The ‘secret services stuff’ IS in the Amnesty report posted earlier.
“Baltimore police received training on crowd control, use of force and surveillance: Israel’s national police, military and intelligence services.”
Restraint techniques are taught in many many occupations. Daft to say that that doesn’t happen at all. There isn’t any evidence that that particular method was taught of course by them of course, but similar shit will have been.
“Baltimore police received training on crowd control, use of force and surveillance: Israel’s national police, military and intelligence services.”
Restraint techniques are taught in many many occupations. Daft to say that that doesn’t happen at all. There isn’t any evidence that that particular method was taught of course by them of course, but similar shit will have been.
Treacle Toes
Time
Mossad is for overseas..inland intelligence services are MiD and they are part of the IDF.
Military Intelligence Directorate (Israel) - Wikipedia
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
You and I both know that such exchanges of expertise involve more than just "kneeling on necks", because they fucking happen. Unless you have good reason to believe Amnesty USA are mistaken:
Where Do Many Police Departments Train? In Israel
U.S. law enforcement agencies need partners for effective training to strengthen their identified weak areas. Israel is not such a partner.www.amnestyusa.org
If they're not mistaken, then what the fuck are US police forces doing in Israel? Playing paintball?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Nobody said no training exchanges happen, plenty do. I disputed what Peake said which was...
"...she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”
No evidence for that at all, if you think they go to learn that basic shit from some special Israel secret service you're deluded. And the phrasing of it and focus of blaming the hand of Israel for a killing by a random cop in the US smacks very firmly of conspiracy theory bollocks to me. Most charitably she's a fucking idiot who should know better.
She's retracted her statement btw, for all of you defending it.
"...she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”
No evidence for that at all, if you think they go to learn that basic shit from some special Israel secret service you're deluded. And the phrasing of it and focus of blaming the hand of Israel for a killing by a random cop in the US smacks very firmly of conspiracy theory bollocks to me. Most charitably she's a fucking idiot who should know better.
She's retracted her statement btw, for all of you defending it.
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mauvais
on reddit or something
Treacle Toes
Time
What I don't understand is why the ADL were/are sponsoring these exchanges?
Joint US-Israel Police & Law Enforcement Training
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes it does. It’s indicative of how easy it’s going to be for Starmer to reimpose the ‘common sense of the market’ by wiping out the last vestiges of social democracy from his shadow cabinet.
Nobody - not Starmer, not those backing him, not even the conspiraloon’s - believe RLB wrote the tweet to draw attention to Peake’s remark about the Israeli secret service. But she was sacked. Instead of focusing on why she’s been sacked and want that means, here we are. Page after page of bollocks
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