Kamala Harris' time is up

[littlebabyjesus]

As his VP, Harris can take credit for Biden's domestic policies, including the stimulus package. She can credibly promise more of the same. At the same time, she can and should list the promises made by Trump in 2016 and detail how he did nothing or worse than nothing to further those promises while in office. There is loads to work with there.

 

[The39thStep]

In today's topsy turvy world, the only way to get a stimulus package through congress is to call it an anti-stimulus package. That's what the Inflation Reduction Act is. Nothing to do with reducing inflation. In fact, it is an achievement to avoid increasing inflation through such a stimulus package.

I would forcefully argue that investment in Green industry benefits everyone in the long run and the working class in particular, as the effects of climate change will be more serious for individuals the poorer they are. You might not agree, and we could argue over that. Trumpists would no doubt argue the reverse, that it is an elite concern. But that doesn't make them right.

Domestically - as far as US presidents go, which isn't very far - Biden has done some things wrt working class concerns. Trump, meanwhile, has a domestic record in which he says he's on the side of, say, coal miners, then does absolutely fuck all to help them when in office, instead choosing to make the rich even richer.

However, I don't agree with your premise. Even if Biden had done nothing for the working class, his inaction would not in and of itself constitute a reason to vote for a wannabe Fascist. The reason you don't vote for a wannabe Fascist is that they're a wannabe Fascist. Them being a wannabe Fascist makes just about anybody else preferable. Doesn't mean you wildly support that anbody else. You can vote for someone while still thinking they're a cunt. Just not quite a Fascist cunt.

Perhaps you misread my post or perhaps I didn't frame it well enough for you to understand, however, I haven't suggested what your final paragraph tries to argue against, which is a vote for Trump.

From the rest of your post, yes I can see the point you are trying to make regarding action on climate change benefiting everyone in the long run. However, it would be useful if you could expand a little more on the Bidden doing 'some things with working class concerns.'.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

From the rest of your post, yes I can see the point you are trying to make regarding action on climate change benefiting everyone in the long run. However, it would be useful if you could expand a little more on the Bidden doing 'some things with working class concerns.'.

The Inflation Reduction Act. It is a Keynesian package aimed at, among other things, reducing prescription charges and investing in domestic clean energy production. And every single Republican member of the Senate and House of Reps voted against it.

Also, Climate Change is a working class concern. Social justice and environmental economic transformation go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other.

 

[ska invita]

I didn't realise until this morning when it was kicking off on Twitter about Owen Jones' posts that Harris' hubby is a wealthy Zionist in his own right. So I guess we can't expect a stop of the flow of the weapons if she does win.

dont know about twitter posts you mention but Wiki has this on her political positions regarding ISrael and Palestine - so expect business as usual


In 2017, Harris gave a public address to AIPAC attendees. She said: "I believe Israel should never be a partisan issue, and as long as I'm a United States senator, I will do everything in my power to ensure broad and bipartisan support for Israel's security and right to self-defense."[214] Harris noted that "the first resolution I co-sponsored as a United States senator was to combat anti-Israel bias at the United Nations," referring to a Senate resolution celebrating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.[215][216][217] In that same speech, she expressed her support for a two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[214]


In late 2017, she travelled to Israel, where she met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and visited the Western Wall, Yad Vashem, and the Supreme Court of Israel.[215] Executive Director of the Jewish Democratic Council of America Halie Soifer, who previously served as Harris's national security advisor, said the following of Harris:[215]

"She has been a lifelong supporter of Israel. She has talked about the importance of ensuring that the US-Israel relationship remains strong, and not be politicized in the way that this administration has done to divide Democrats. I think she's very supportive of the US-Israel relationship."

In 2018, in another speech to AIPAC, Harris reiterated her support for Israel, reminiscing about growing up in the Bay Area, collecting funds to plant trees in Israel for the Jewish National Fund.[218] She later condemned anti-Semitism in the aftermath of Tree of Life – Or L'Simcha Congregation shooting which claimed the lives of 11 worshippers during Shabbat morning services.


In 2019, she opposed the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement targeting Israel.[219] She was a co-sponsor of a Senate resolution expressing objection to the UN Security Council Resolution 2334, which condemned Israeli settlement building in the West Bank as a violation of international law.[215][220][219]


In March 2024, in remarks at the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, Harris called for a ceasefire in the Israel–Hamas war and urged Hamas to accept a deal to release hostages in return for violence ending for six weeks: "People in Gaza are starving. The conditions are inhumane and our common humanity compels us to act. The Israeli government must do more to significantly increase the flow of aid. No excuses."[221]

 

[The39thStep]

The Inflation Reduction Act. It is a Keynesian package aimed at, among other things, reducing prescription charges and investing in domestic clean energy production. And every single Republican member of the Senate and House of Reps voted against it.

Also, Climate Change is a working class concern. Social justice and environmental economic transformation go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other.

Ok thanks . Don't want to go around in decreasing circles however, I haven't argued that climate change isn't a working class concern and I did say that I saw the point you were trying to make when you mentioned climate change and the IRA.

 

[bcuster]

Harris vs. Trump: What the polls tell us​

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4785009-kamala-harris-polls-donald-trump/

 

[emanymton]

Perhaps you misread my post or perhaps I didn't frame it well enough for you to understand, however, I haven't suggested what your final paragraph tries to argue against, which is a vote for Trump.

From the rest of your post, yes I can see the point you are trying to make regarding action on climate change benefiting everyone in the long run. However, it would be useful if you could expand a little more on the Bidden doing 'some things with working class concerns.'.

Not voting fascist and not voting against a fascist seems too fine a distinction if you ask me, both increase their chances of winning.

I don't think Trump is actually fascist though, but then I also not surr it is a useful term for analysis anymore, still has a place in rhetoric though.

 

[petee]

Perhaps you misread my post or perhaps I didn't frame it well enough for you to understand, however, I haven't suggested what your final paragraph tries to argue against, which is a vote for Trump.

From the rest of your post, yes I can see the point you are trying to make regarding action on climate change benefiting everyone in the long run. However, it would be useful if you could expand a little more on the Bidden doing 'some things with working class concerns.'.

what a snide post.

Biden-Harris administration finalizes rule to increase compensation thresholds for overtime eligibility, expanding protections for millions of workers

www.dol.gov

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...ll-biden-student-debt-relief-plan-2024-07-18/ well, he tried

Biden proposes new rule to protect 36 million workers from extreme heat

President Joe Biden has proposed a new rule to address excessive heat in the workplace. The Democrat warns as tens of millions of people in the U.S. are under heat advisories that high temperatures are the country’s leading weather-related killer.

apnews.com

i could go on, but maybe you can define what's in the interest of the working class and how you're going to get that through the American legislative system.

 

[The39thStep]

Not voting fascist and not voting against a fascist seems too fine a distinction if you ask me, both increase their chances of winning.

I don't think Trump is actually fascist though, but then I also not surr it is a useful term for analysis anymore, still has a place in rhetoric though.

There certainly is a debate to be had about how fascism , like any other political belief, has evolved and its variants. I was reading some analysis on Traditionalism the other from Dugin to Bannon to de Carvalho I think the term, fascism, is sometimes flung around often at people who clearly are very objectionable but who clearly aren't fascist and then groups that clearly are fascist aren't recognised as being fascist.

 

[The39thStep]

what a snide post.

Biden-Harris administration finalizes rule to increase compensation thresholds for overtime eligibility, expanding protections for millions of workers

www.dol.gov

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...ll-biden-student-debt-relief-plan-2024-07-18/ well, he tried

Biden proposes new rule to protect 36 million workers from extreme heat

President Joe Biden has proposed a new rule to address excessive heat in the workplace. The Democrat warns as tens of millions of people in the U.S. are under heat advisories that high temperatures are the country’s leading weather-related killer.

apnews.com

i could go on, but maybe you can define what's in the interest of the working class and how you're going to get that through the American legislative system.

Do go on. Please. What I wanted was someone to expand on the short phrase 'doing something wrt working class concerns'. At least you are trying to do that. Thanks

 

[Petcha]

dont know about twitter posts you mention but Wiki has this on her political positions regarding ISrael and Palestine - so expect business as usual


In 2017, Harris gave a public address to AIPAC attendees. She said: "I believe Israel should never be a partisan issue, and as long as I'm a United States senator, I will do everything in my power to ensure broad and bipartisan support for Israel's security and right to self-defense."[214] Harris noted that "the first resolution I co-sponsored as a United States senator was to combat anti-Israel bias at the United Nations," referring to a Senate resolution celebrating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.[215][216][217] In that same speech, she expressed her support for a two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[214]


In late 2017, she travelled to Israel, where she met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and visited the Western Wall, Yad Vashem, and the Supreme Court of Israel.[215] Executive Director of the Jewish Democratic Council of America Halie Soifer, who previously served as Harris's national security advisor, said the following of Harris:[215]

"She has been a lifelong supporter of Israel. She has talked about the importance of ensuring that the US-Israel relationship remains strong, and not be politicized in the way that this administration has done to divide Democrats. I think she's very supportive of the US-Israel relationship."

In 2018, in another speech to AIPAC, Harris reiterated her support for Israel, reminiscing about growing up in the Bay Area, collecting funds to plant trees in Israel for the Jewish National Fund.[218] She later condemned anti-Semitism in the aftermath of Tree of Life – Or L'Simcha Congregation shooting which claimed the lives of 11 worshippers during Shabbat morning services.


In 2019, she opposed the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement targeting Israel.[219] She was a co-sponsor of a Senate resolution expressing objection to the UN Security Council Resolution 2334, which condemned Israeli settlement building in the West Bank as a violation of international law.[215][220][219]


In March 2024, in remarks at the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, Harris called for a ceasefire in the Israel–Hamas war and urged Hamas to accept a deal to release hostages in return for violence ending for six weeks: "People in Gaza are starving. The conditions are inhumane and our common humanity compels us to act. The Israeli government must do more to significantly increase the flow of aid. No excuses."[221]

Oh Jones posted some fairly incendiary stuff about Israel committing genocide and Biden being a war criminal and then the predictable backlash. Anyway yeh I wasn't aware of who this guy is which was mentioned on there. I guess he could potentially have the ear of President Harris.

Doug Emhoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Brainaddict]

The interesting thing about the late switcheroo is that it has brought to the Democratic campaign a sense of excitement that was entirely lacking before. People (as opposed to party machinery) are lining up behind Harris partly because it feels different and new, and I guess they feel that will help in beating Trump. They're probably not wrong. You aren't going to get MAGA types voting for her obviously, but you can potentially get a bunch of swing and non-voters out to the polls if you can generate a bit of excitement, and that could be enough. Policy-wise I'm not clear what she has to offer besides supporting abortion, but it's not necessarily policies that will get the sluggish voters out anyway - nobody reads manifestos after all.

 

[Petcha]

The interesting thing about the late switcheroo is that it has brought to the Democratic campaign a sense of excitement that was entirely lacking before. People (as opposed to party machinery) are lining up behind Harris partly because it feels different and new, and I guess they feel that will help in beating Trump. They're probably not wrong. You aren't going to get MAGA types voting for her obviously, but you can potentially get a bunch of swing and non-voters out to the polls if you can generate a bit of excitement, and that could be enough. Policy-wise I'm not clear what she has to offer besides supporting abortion, but it's not necessarily policies that will get the sluggish voters out anyway - nobody reads manifestos after all.

There's a fairly broad overview here.. It's poles apart from Trump in almost every sense, so might be a matter of holding the nose and ticking that box. All my american friends were already decided anyway but they're on the coasts, so I expect a massive massive hit on those dodgy 'swing states'. Even more so than usual. Trump had in the bag.

Ukraine, abortion and guns: Where does Kamala Harris stand on key issues?

The current favourite for the nomination is expected to largely stick to Biden's playbook on big foreign policy matters.

news.sky.com

 

[petee]

Do go on. Please. What I wanted was someone to expand on the short phrase 'doing something wrt working class concerns'. At least you are trying to do that. Thanks

again, please tell us what are working class concerns and how you'd get such policy proposals through american legislatures.

it's not hard to find such lists.

The Biden-Harris Record | The White House

President Biden and Vice President Harris ran for office on the promise to move quickly to deliver results for working families. That's what they've done.

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[The39thStep]

again, please tell us what are working class concerns and how you'd get such policy proposals through american legislatures.

it's not hard to find such lists.

The Biden-Harris Record | The White House

President Biden and Vice President Harris ran for office on the promise to move quickly to deliver results for working families. That's what they've done.

www.whitehouse.gov

You live there so you tell me about what you think w/class concerns are and how they have been addressed.If you are saying that the Democrats have tried but there have been constraints on getting policy through let's hear your story.

Some of the issues that I would like some more information on from posters like yourself would be on cost of living decline of disposable income in w/class families, tackling affordable housing both rental and buying, eviction rates, homelessness, credit card debt, etc.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Do go on. Please. What I wanted was someone to expand on the short phrase 'doing something wrt working class concerns'. At least you are trying to do that. Thanks

You define those concerns, then.

I think you're being disingenuous here with your faux naivety. Reducing prescription charges, for example, addresses a working class concern. If you genuinely don't understand what a huge fucking deal prescription charges are in the US, I suggest you do the work to find out. It's an easy google away.

 

[The39thStep]

You define those concerns, then.

I think you're being disingenuous here with your faux naivety. Reducing prescription charges, for example, addresses a working class concern. If you genuinely don't understand what a huge fucking deal prescription charges are in the US, I suggest you do the work to find out. It's an easy google away.

Well excuse my faux naivety. Look I'd rather the Democrats won than the Republicans, I think the basic intent of Bidenomics was specifically built around addressing three main issues Trumps programme and appeal , the US's perception of China and the US economy in climate change. The intended outcomes of the programme are in many cases attractive and progressive ( we can have a discussion about derisking and the role of state and private capital in meeting policy objectives) ) however I am not sure that they sufficiently address many of the issues I mention in the post above ( 105) and whether the progress so far is going to be good enough to see off the Trump vote. If you think they are , well we will have to wait and see.

 

[krtek a houby]

It’s going to be a much closer race between Kamala Harris and Trump compared to Joe Biden and Trump.
I think it is too tight to call.
Trump has being saying on CNN in the last few minutes that Kamala Harris will be easier to beat than Joe Biden, but I think he knows that this is false.

And what do Bloomberg say?

 

[redsquirrel]

Not voting fascist and not voting against a fascist seems too fine a distinction if you ask me, both increase their chances of winning.

But for most of the electorate casting a vote is meaningless - not voting Biden/Harris/whoever in California or in Alabama cannot be said to meaningful increase Trump's chance of winning. It is going to make naff all difference.

But more fundamentally it is part of the problem to focus on the electoral rather than the political.

In my view voting for Macron/En Marche helps the RN politically, neo-liberalism is the manure from which hard right populism grows. I see a significant difference between voting for a genuine popular (or united) front and voting for a shite like Macron. Trump's electoral loss in 2020 has not defeated the hard right forces, the RN is in a better place than when Le Pen lost the presidential election.

 

[two sheds]

Well excuse my faux naivety. Look I'd rather the Democrats won than the Republicans, I think the basic intent of Bidenomics was specifically built around addressing three main issues Trumps programme and appeal , the US's perception of China and the US economy in climate change. The intended outcomes of the programme are in many cases attractive and progressive ( we can have a discussion about derisking and the role of state and private capital in meeting policy objectives) ) however I am not sure that they sufficiently address many of the issues I mention in the post above ( 105) and whether the progress so far is going to be good enough to see off the Trump vote. If you think they are , well we will have to wait and see.

This was posted uponeofthethreads somewhere - does give some answers, and charts.

What Has Biden Accomplished? Look at These 10 Metrics, Not the Polls

Biden has outperformed Trump on a number of fronts, from inequality and green spending to stocks and crime. But not all.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[emanymton]

But for most of the electorate casting a vote is meaningless - not voting Biden/Harris/whoever in California or in Alabama cannot be said to meaningful increase Trump's chance of winning. It is going to make naff all difference.

But more fundamentally it is part of the problem to focus on the electoral rather than the political.

In my view voting for Macron/En Marche helps the RN politically, neo-liberalism is the manure from which hard right populism grows. I see a significant difference between voting for a genuine popular (or united) front and voting for a shite like Macron. Trump's electoral loss in 2020 has not defeated the hard right forces, the RN is in a better place than when Le Pen lost the presidential election.

The first part is certainly true.

As for the second, I think not voting against the likes of Trump or Macron out of principle, is itself placing too much importance on elections and voting, it is given the act of voting a moral and political significance beyond what I think it has.

No voting against Trump isn't a solution. But on poling day it's a better option than not voting in a lot of cases.

 

[redsquirrel]

As for the second, I think not voting against the likes of Trump or Macron out of principle, is itself placing too much importance on elections and voting, it is given the act of voting a moral and political significance beyond what I think it has.

But it is not out of principle.
It's an entirely pragmatic decision - that Macron is not in opposition to the RN, rather the RN is a inescapable reaction to the politics of Neo-liberalism and the organising politically around a 'vote to keep out the fascist' strategy in 2017 and 2022 assisted the RN.

You're right in that I gave too much significant to the individual voting in my previous post, I should have said organising electorally - perils of posting on a bulletin board. But then you accord voting a moral/political significant in your last paragraph.

 

[emanymton]

But it is not out of principle.
It's an entirely pragmatic decision - that Macron is not in opposition to the RN, rather the RN is a inescapable reaction to the politics of Neo-liberalism and the organising politically around a 'vote to keep out the fascist' strategy in 2017 and 2022 assisted the RN.

I don't think a "vote to keep fascists out" strategy is bad when faced with a possible fascist election victory. It's bad when it is the only strategy you have and fuck all is done until the next time. We know that is the real issue and nothing is being done. But that is about what happens away from and between polling days. On the day itself I don't see much to be gained by sitting at home.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Question for US politics geeks, assuming that Harris gets the nomination.

There would be a good argument for Biden to step down immediately after the convention. That removes the attack line that Democrats are keeping an enfeebled president in office, bolsters messaging against Trump’s age or capacity, and most importantly gives Harris a few months to look presidential then to stand as an incumbent.

But would a few months as stand-in limit Harris to only one further term? If so, she would have conflicted interests, even if Biden was prepared to go through with it.

I would think Biden has been convinced to walk via the promise that he'll not be forced out before January. The big endorsement statements have all referred to Biden serving out his term with head held high and all that shit.

 

[Everything Goes]

Harris is about to make a speech at the White House.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Harris is about to make a speech at the White House.

First time I've heard her voice I think. Strong Mary McDonnell in Battlestar Galactica vibes.

E2a: With a tiny hint of Obama's cadence. All in all a strong look, she'll go far I reckon.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

You define those concerns, then.

I think you're being disingenuous here with your faux naivety. Reducing prescription charges, for example, addresses a working class concern. If you genuinely don't understand what a huge fucking deal prescription charges are in the US, I suggest you do the work to find out. It's an easy google away.

Reducing prescription charges is a working class concern. As I understand it Biden's has delivered (from the website link posted up thread: The Biden-Harris Record | The White House):

• A month’s supply of insulin for OAP's is now capped at $35
• Medicare beneficiaries pay $0 out of pocket for recommended adult vaccines.
• OAP's "out of pocket expenses" at the pharmacy will be capped at $2,000 a year.

I mean, free vaccines and capped medical costs for pensioners are undoubtedly good things, but its some way short of reducing prescription charges.

The other big claim on the website is on jobs, and the record (similar to the boast of the Tories) is around the number of jobs created under Biden. But, around half of these jobs (7 Million) disappeared during the pandemic and presumably those jobs in services etc came back after the pandemic. It's also worth noting that wages have not kept place with inflation over the first 3 years of his presidency and that per capita disposable income for the poorest has actually gone down.

So again, Biden has done some 'good things' but if you are in a job where your wages have declined against the costs of living or if you have prescription charges but aren't a pensioner then Biden does not appear to have done much for you.

Given the reported size of the working class vote for Trump (with increasing numbers of black and latino working class votes and a large majority among the millions of white working class without a college degree) one key question for those lining up behind Harris and the Democrats is if Biden has delivered so much for the working class why are so many of them planning to vote against their own material interests?

I don't doubt that a) the legislature and system militates against any action that could genuinely and radically improve material conditions and that b) Trump will do no better or likely worse. But they are arguments for not voting at all - a conclusion that 81 million Americans reached last time.

 

[Dystopiary]

You may be right about the isolationism but I can quite see him saying to Israel "get on with it ..." to anything they want to do.

...Whereas Biden told them weakly that they should maybe think about stopping, whilst providing them with the means to carry on, and there's no indication that Harris won't continue likewise.
Whoever wins things are going to remain utterly shit for Palestinians.

 

[two sheds]

yes can't argue with that it's the speed with which it happens but in a few years it may turn out not have mattered at all.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

For the first time for ages I don't feel a sense of total doom about the US's future. Obviously its still far from a forgone conclusion that the US public will reject the would-be dictator who encouraged people to drink bleach at the height of the COVID pandemic, but Harris and her team are gonna put up a good fight agains him. She would absolutely torch Jeffery Epstein's r**e buddy in a debate, but he's probably too much of a little bitch to take her on.