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Just how militant are you prepared to be?

Fuck it i'm getting tooled up. Right i've got a bike pump a d-lock and a sharp bike spanner. Where's the action?

I knew i'd flip when i had 8,888 posts
 
were it so easy.
It can be that easy, especially in a controlled situation like a march, where the likelihood of oversight by public or private means is likely (which kindles another thought: overwhelming the police and other public bodies that carry out CCTV surveillance, in the immediate aftermath of a protest. with FoI requests for footage, the economic war often being as important as the physical one).
You don't initiate violence, you respond to it, or the imminent threat of it, which leaves the quasi-pacifists among us little excuse for not defending themselves.
Then violence would be our tool to use if necessary- outgunned and outmanned are we.
It should be.
IMHO it's important to allow the state to pay out enough rope to hang themselves with, though. We know from the last couple of years how fragile a grip on public support the state has, in terms of policing protest, and allowing the state's apparatus to blunder around intimidating people engaged in legitimate protest, and be seen to do so, costs them immeasurably more than it costs the protesters.
oh aye, but a massive social imperative to freedom is not viable, not in the current set up.
Well, maybe "freedom" isn't an immediately-achievable goal, and I suspect that people understand that, but that's not the immediate issue: The cuts and the damage they're already causing and will cause, are.

They'll win. They do this, win when you go toe-to-toe. Hamstring, undermine and so forth. Go face to face and they have the higher ground.
Which is why I don't believe in "going toe-to-toe". As I said to a poster on another thread last week, it's very bad tactically to fight your enemy on ground of his choosing. far better to fight that enemy on your own terms.
Now, working out what terms to fight on, and what tactics and strategies best serve your goals, that's the difficult thing.

defense and fall back stuff. I know this is what the guerrilla force has to do. But the Irregulars Handbook can be a catalyst for a sodding RAF special. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth- to become the thing you despise etc.

Not really. The RAF were never about self-defence, or even community defence, they were more about a direct assault on the system via those who served it.
The great thing about "guerrilla warfare" is that you don't need to fight to win, you merely need to tie up the materiel and personnel your enemy controls, and (hopefully) make them look brutal and inept. With the state of current information technology, you don't even have to worry about the BBC doing an Orgreave with your footage of the state's apparatus being brutal and inept.
 
I am very comfortable with my view of the morality of revolutionary violence. It is a view I have held for most of my life.

I was on the poll tax riot and count it as one of the most spectacular acts of resistance I have had the privilege to have been a part of. I took part and I am proud that I took part.

I was once a pacifist. I was in the anti nuclear movement in my youth. I did my share of sitting in front of military vehicles and getting arrested. Then the miners strike came along and changed everything. Smacked me in the face with the open palm of reality as it were. I witnessed the open and unapologetic violence of the state. The closing of motorways, the brutal clubbing of miners. The seizure of assets. The use of the entire force of the state to defeat them. It was a lesson that I have never forgotten
. The state doesn't share the liberal squeamishness about using violence to impose its will. If we want to win this fight we can't impose such obstacles onto ourselves either. I think we can win this. I think we can build something historic but if we impose on ourselves the restrictions of legality or non violence we will lose. That is the start and end of it. Violence is a necessity or we should give up now. Because I have a feeling this is going to be poll tax 2

Liberal democratic regimes rule with the iron fist hidden inside a velvet glove. The state is loath to take off that glove because once done, it is hard to put it back on. If this fight really takes off and if it builds into something with a serious chance of winning have no doubt that the glove will come off. Good. Fucked if they do and fucked if they don't because if they do take the gloves off then the true face of this so called democracy will be revealed for all to see.
 
I dunno. What's at the end of violence? Change for the better, like VP said in another thread? Or instability? Chaos, strikes, fuck all except people fighting and unsure? No one knows what they want other than NOT THIS.
 
I dunno. What's at the end of violence? Change for the better, like VP said in another thread? Or instability? Chaos, strikes, fuck all except people fighting and unsure? No one knows what they want other than NOT THIS.

Winning
 
tbf, the fuel protestors in 2000(ish) showed how it should be done, with a relatively tiny number of committed people managing to nearly shut down the country and force the government into a change of policy.

I do have a sneaky suspicion that there was a fair degree of establishment and industry collusion in that mind, but the UK could be brought to the brink of being shut down pretty quickly with a fairly small number of carefully targeted but sustained actions.
 
I am quite content with damage to property and shows of force but bodily harm no,anyway that would work against protesters
 
I dunno. What's at the end of violence? Change for the better, like VP said in another thread? Or instability? Chaos, strikes, fuck all except people fighting and unsure? No one knows what they want other than NOT THIS.

I know what I want. Production democratically controlled by the workers.
 
hit, run. Stand, hit and run again. Lure in, hit, run and run. Is it any wonder I want t34s rolling over western europe ffs.

I am sidelined by my own morality- we'll see victory through violence and I'll wish we had another way.

This is the problem I suppose. The ROE are set. And not by us.
 
tbf, the fuel protestors in 2000(ish) showed how it should be done, with a relatively tiny number of committed people managing to nearly shut down the country and force the government into a change of policy.

That was a good example of non-violent action that caused maximum confusion and disruption, but didn’t the government make some change in the law to prevent it happening again?
 
tbf, the fuel protestors in 2000(ish) showed how it should be done, with a relatively tiny number of committed people managing to nearly shut down the country and force the government into a change of policy.

I do have a sneaky suspicion that there was a fair degree of establishment and industry collusion in that mind, but the UK could be brought to the brink of being shut down pretty quickly with a fairly small number of carefully targeted but sustained actions.
But I just find that scary. No one wants to be in some desperate situation of stand still. We will all be fucked if it's not business as usual. Not the rich lol, the fuckin normal people. The rich will fuck off, it will be us left with a country in freefall if shit closes down.
 
I dunno. What's at the end of violence? Change for the better, like VP said in another thread? Or instability? Chaos, strikes, fuck all except people fighting and unsure? No one knows what they want other than NOT THIS.
for now, I'd be happy with drawing a line in the sand and stopping this coalition doing it's worst, either by them stepping back from the brink, or through the coalition collapsing, and a new election being called - ideally with nick clegg having been forced out in the process, and labour being given the courage to be a fuck of a lot less neoliberal in their outlook in the process.
 
for now, I'd be happy with drawing a line in the sand and stopping this coalition doing it's worst, either by them stepping back from the brink, or through the coalition collapsing, and a new election being called - ideally with nick clegg having been forced out in the process, and labour being given the courage to be a fuck of a lot less neoliberal in their outlook in the process.
Yeah well that would be a result, and I fuckin voted Liberal lol. But have Labour changed? Have they fuck. Thereis no answer, just summat worse.
 
for now, I'd be happy with drawing a line in the sand and stopping this coalition doing it's worst, either by them stepping back from the brink, or through the coalition collapsing, and a new election being called

Bolded bit can only happen if the LibDems walk away, that's not going to happen with the polls as they are, they are in it for the long haul.
 
But I just find that scary. No one wants to be in some desperate situation of stand still. We will all be fucked if it's not business as usual. Not the rich lol, the fuckin normal people. The rich will fuck off, it will be us left with a country in freefall if shit closes down.
government's fall when the power goes off, but a carefully targeted campaign could easily result in just enough of a slowdown to cause the bigger businesses on interruptable supply contracts to have their supplies temporarily cut, which would temporarily affect their workers, but hopefully could force the government's hand / bring the coalition down before it actually had any impact on home power supplies etc. Bear in mind that there'd be a hell of a lot that would get shut down to reduce power demand before the government let it affect houses (I'm well aware how the power infrastructure of this country is set up).

I'm not talking about destroying the infrastructure, just blockading key parts of it until the lib dems kicked clegg out and the coalition collapsed.

after the militancy in part of the power industry in recent years I doubt it'd be hard to get the workers at a fair few plants onside as well.
 
Winning what?

In this case overturning the attempt to make our class pay for their crisis. Stopping the assault on the welfare state. Once won we should turn the radical energy released by this fight to demand an economy built and run for ordinary people not for those who own and control this country. A programme of public works and investment for job creation and the guarantee of real work and training for all. Nationalisation under democratic control of this countries utilities and their supply for need not profit. Investment in health and education for all our citizens.

All of these things are possible and would create economic growth. The people employed by expanding needed services and state sponsored investment will have money, they will spend it, it goes around and around.
It's not rocket science. Most of all, winning means the putting to rest this bullshit that these things are not possible because "the country" can't afford it". While a tiny minority own and control this country for their own benefit, this remains a sick lie
 
In this case overturning the attempt to make our class pay for their crisis. Stopping the assault on the welfare state. Once won we should turn the radical energy released by this fight to demand an economy built and run for ordinary people not for those who own and control this country. A programme of public works and investment for job creation and the guarantee of real work and training for all. Nationalisation under democratic control of this countries utilities and their supply for need not profit. Investment in health and education for all our citizens.

All of these things are possible and would create economic growth. The people employed by expanding needed services and state sponsored investment will have money, they will spend it, it goes around and around.
It's not rocket science. Most of all, winning means the putting to rest this bullshit that these things are not possible because "the country" can't afford it". While a tiny minority own and control this country for their own benefit, this remains a sick lie

Good post :)
 
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