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Just found out a guy who works for me is being a git

firky said:
Coffee, Chalky, Chocolate Drop, the Indian.

Oh I don't know - there's just an air to this thread I don't like but what do I know about management.

That's tuppence.
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No, I know what you mean. I don't think anyone here means that but it would be easy for somebody to surf along here, see the thread and say "yeah those Indians eh, they have a problem with women".
 
FridgeMagnet said:
No, I know what you mean. I don't think anyone here means that but it would be easy for somebody to surf along here, see the thread and say "yeah those Indians eh, they have a problem with women".
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Plus scratching the surface of the labour power and profit relationship can seem dehumanising.
 
Manter said:
He's not an employer, he's a manager. And there is nothing he's said that identifies, even vaguely, who it is and where etc. he's been v careful.
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I suppose. Given the time of the op, it looks as if he was at work. I wouldn't post something about an employee from a work computer, nor would I open a site on my work computer where I'd made such a comment. I take it as a given that the sysadmin and others have access to what I do. The possibility exists that such a post could either get back to the person, or could become a subject of conversation amongst other employees.
 
I reckon if I was Fridgemagnet or editor I'd have gone postal with the ban button years ago. Although Fridgemagnet did delete a load of my and hundreds of other people's posts by "accident".
 
FridgeMagnet said:
He's not only publicly said that he doesn't think women should be in charge of men but he's also ignored a client's instructions because the representative was a woman? That's pretty fucking terrible. I can't imagine even the most old-school misogynist company liking that.

I'd say that I can't imagine people behaving like that these days but unfortunately I can.
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I have the total displeasure of working with an English guy who judges a womans performance on 'how good they look' the guy is total twit.
 
weltweit said:
And yet, India has been in the news recently after a vicious rape and the resulting protests.
Just saying.
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Meanwhile, we've had Jimmy Savile hot on the heels of Rochdale and Worboys. What the fuck are you trying to "just say"?


Manter said:
The team in the UK are living on the same income while he is in the UK- that's the point. The expat piece isn't all about maximising profit or you would move people from low cost countries, pay them next to nothing and probably put them up in dormitories. As in fact is common in china....
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And increasingly common here thanks to the EU Posted Workers' Directive. You're talking about the extremely privileged end of the employment market. By definition, the exception rather than the norm.
 
spoke with both the guy and the clients team leader this morning and.. the guy is a dick

the team lead is pretty pissed off, to put it mildly, and wont allow him back on site so that kinda takes one decision out of my hands.

the guy himself cant see that he has done anything wrong. he did make the comments and has downgraded priorities of work passed to him from the team lead. he was at pains to try to point out that we need to understand his cultural background and make allowances for it in where we place him.... this went down REALLY well. there was little desire to see that what he did was not acceptable in the country (nearly slipped up there) where he was based and that the UK company in particular had strong policies that made this sort of behaviour unacceptable. Mr Pingu does not have to "try to understand that in his culture this is the norm and its not normal for a man to be dictated to by a women". IME none of the other people we have engaged from the Indian subcontinent (OK for you Firky?) have had this attitude so even though I am not an expert on the culture I am going to call "bollocks" on that.

so .. its back to india for him
 
geminisnake said:
What does RTU mean??
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sorry it means return to unit. its a hangover from my time hanging out with rufty tufty types with a penchant for going for 5 mile runs at 6 am and jumping out of perfectly good aeroplanes. Normally used when someone transfers in, can't make the grade so they are returned to their original unit.
 
I don't think firky was referring to your decision to name the country of origin. "The Indian guy" would have been a perfectly acceptable alternative to "the Indian" (IMO).

The cultural excuse holds no water at all. Even if he wasn't intelligent enough to have done his cultural homework, middle-class Indian feminists have been making the same arguments as middle-class European feminists and have made similar (much resented) progress in law vis-a-vis the workplace. It's the worst place in the world to be a woman according to some UN or similar report, but that's primarily for poor women who cannot afford to access education and have no real protection under the law. It's a lot closer to Europe for middle-class types, of which he is one.
 
ymu said:
I don't think firky was referring to your decision to name the country of origin. "The Indian guy" would have been a perfectly acceptable alternative to "the Indian" (IMO).

The cultural excuse holds no water at all. Even if he wasn't intelligent enough to have done his cultural homework, middle-class Indian feminists have been making the same arguments as middle-class European feminists and have made similar (much resented) progress in law vis-a-vis the workplace. It's the worst place in the world to be a woman according to some UN or similar report, but that's primarily for poor women who cannot afford to access education and have no real protection under the law. It's a lot closer to Europe for middle-class types, of which he is one.
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Although ... we don't really know enough about his background to make any assumptions as to his class and culture apart from the job that he is doing (which may or may not be a class marker) and what he says about his culture v Pingu's/our understanding of the class/caste driven culture. We also don't know what orientation he was given for the country that he was assigned to and over what period.

Be that as it may, as Pingu says the decision has for the most part been taken out of his hands; and for whatever reason/factors it was a decision that needed to be made quickly.
 
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Bob_the_lost said:
Massive over assumption there I'm afraid. Worked with a lot of staff flown in from all ends of the earth and the majority are 'middling'.
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Agree on this, mainly (IME) because people from certain regions dont get sent on lucrative overseas assignments because they are the best people for the job but rather they have the best contacts/pay the better bribes etc etc. It's something I've seen a few times.

Not saying it doesn't happen to a degree everywhere but in certain regions it seems more the norm than others.
 
Pingu said:
We do ensure anyone who is seconded in this way receives the full amount they are due though so no skimming off the top of it for the Indian Company - its a contractual obligation and is clearly defined in the contract.
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How do you ensure that this doesn't happen? I've heard a few cases of Indian employees having to pay a percentage of their higher overseas income to the person/s who "arranged" for them to get that position.
 
Fuchs66 said:
How do you ensure that this doesn't happen? I've heard a few cases of Indian employees having to pay a percentage of their higher overseas income to the person/s who "arranged" for them to get that position.
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tbh I am not sure. the group has the same CEO across all companies and this has been signed off by him. no one has ever complained that they have had money deducted. if they have done so then technically they are in breach of the contract but whether anything would be done about it is uncertain. I cant rally see the UK company suing the Indian company. I will ask the finance director about this next time I see him

I guess the underlying check is that a shitstorm would occur if we found out that one part of the group was telling porkies to another part of the group.
 
weltweit said:
Anyhow, the problem with Mr Stupid is that he did not do what was requested or instructed by a senior person and made sexist comments to colleagues.
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Both of which are gross miscobduct.
 
Pingu said:
tbh I am not sure. the group has the same CEO across all companies and this has been signed off by him. no one has ever complained that they have had money deducted. if they have done so then technically they are in breach of the contract but whether anything would be done about it is uncertain. I cant rally see the UK company suing the Indian company. I will ask the finance director about this next time I see him

I guess the underlying check is that a shitstorm would occur if we found out that one part of the group was telling porkies to another part of the group.
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Thing is the CEO is unlikely to be the fixer (unless it was an extremely high level job) also there are unlikely to be any complaints especially if on the Indian side it is seen as the norm and that anyone percieved to be "rocking the boat" wouldn't get the chance of a higher paid foreign asssignment again ( and more than likely would lose their job in India too).
 
Pingu said:
tbh I am not sure. the group has the same CEO across all companies and this has been signed off by him. no one has ever complained that they have had money deducted. if they have done so then technically they are in breach of the contract but whether anything would be done about it is uncertain. I cant rally see the UK company suing the Indian company. I will ask the finance director about this next time I see him

I guess the underlying check is that a shitstorm would occur if we found out that one part of the group was telling porkies to another part of the group.
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One way of approaching that (and it's a very very good point that Fuchs made) is to incorporate it into the Bribery Policy and procedures. It's another example of one of the reasons that the Bribery Act was enacted and there are certain regions where "arrangement fees" (backhanders, call it what you will) are a cultural norm.
 
Fuchs66 said:
Thing is the CEO is unlikely to be the fixer (unless it was an extremely high level job) also there are unlikely to be any complaints especially if on the Indian side it is seen as the norm and that anyone percieved to be "rocking the boat" wouldn't get the chance of a higher paid foreign asssignment again ( and more than likely would lose their job in India too).
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possibly. not much I can do about that though if that is the case. I do know that if anyone was found to be taking bribes to place people, especially if that placement damaged the company or its reputation, they would be in deep shit. ours is a very niche industry and our reputation is what wins us contracts over the large SIs like Accenture etc. if that reputation is lost we will go out of business very quickly
 
weltweit said:
Simple, India does not have a good reputation where gender equality is concerned.
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And you thought that the fact that a rape happened there recently was good enough evidence to back up your assertion with? Because rape is definitely not a problem in Europe? Doesn't happen. Not 'real' rape anyway.

There's a recent UN report you could quote on why it's the worst place in the world to be a woman, if you're that desperate to play the ranking game.
 
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