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Just found out a guy who works for me is being a git

you've usually broken up the local labour conditions when you have set up a offshore or follow the sun model in the first place- because you've changed processes, set up new KPIs or SLAs.... moving an indian IT specialist to the UK for a bit doesn't make much difference....
 
it is a cost- that is usually justified as an investment
It might be a cost (investment) in your milieu, but that doesn't necessarily apply to all businesses - some of which have business models that rely on the importing of cheap labour eg oil and construction.
 
you were using the wrong terms so I assumed you weren't clear on the meaning of them.
No I'm not, Pingu's company is paying a third party to do some work. It has outsourced some labour.

My guess would be @Pingu's firm operate a multishore model where solutions are delivered partly locally and partly offshore, and the indian involved usually works on the offshore site.
Its my guess he has been brought over here to learn how the UK organisation works, see client activity up close, share information on the offshore part of the business and so allow/help the organisation to deliver solutions more effectively in the future.
Maybe you should stop guessing.
 
Well, unless there's a perceived potential profit or benefit. I've seen some very unprofitable movements take place.

in this particular case it was a skills shortage. there are not many people in the world who know Ab Initio webservices, Metadata Hub and Data Profiler in any detail.

profit wise.. we (the UK company ) get profit as we can fulfil - or could a contract - we may still be able to but there is going to have to be a lot of damage limitation done. the Indian Company I am not sure what happens there tbh but I guess they will make something from it even if its just increased turnover. We do ensure anyone who is seconded in this way receives the full amount they are due though so no skimming off the top of it for the Indian Company - its a contractual obligation and is clearly defined in the contract. They saw it as a good opportunity for their staff to get experience in working outside of India. I could have just gone to the EU contract market but we try to use "internal" resources first wherever possible and this guy was available and had good references from the previous places he had worked. This makes the engagements more profitable for us but also ensures that personal development occurs within the group of companies - qv I was going to go to the states to do some work for Wells Fargo via the US company and regularly do work for our Eastern and central European company (in fact I am out there next week).

this allows for internal skills transfer and for people to gain experience in areas they may not otherwise see.

Anyhow will update after I have spoken with him in the morning
 
No I'm not, Pingu's company is paying a third party to do some work. It has outsourced some labour.


Maybe you should stop guessing.

maybe manter is pretty accurate in some of the guessing...

the company he came from is our indian sister company. each region is a physically separate entity but we operate under a global group banner and aside from the accounting bits operate as one company.
 
It might be a cost (investment) in your milieu, but that doesn't necessarily apply to all businesses - some of which have business models that rely on the importing of cheap labour eg oil and construction.
We are talking here about a guy seconded from an Indian company, not a plan to hire large numbers of foreign workers and ship them round the world. Which is unusual even in construction and oil, they usually let the foreign workers come to them and hire them as locals- the cost differential has to be huge for organisations to take on workers in one location and ship them to another- common in china, but the employment market is radically different over there. Not sure what my 'milieu' is- I advise companies on operate in a multinational environment and have reviewed expat schemes as part of that a fair few times. Operating in a multinational environment means I have been on an expat contract, but you look at the whole company. That may mean considering the location of a service centre, or factory or whatever, or where you can get workers from (eg Kazakhstan doesn't have the workers with the skills they need to operate in the conditions they need to operate in, so they need foreign workers- you look at the solution for the whole oil production site, consider expatting some, some you give high return contracts, etc etc
 
Just out of interest, Pingu, how have you found the mechanics of the secondment? I've recently had a client (an individual in this instance) who was seconded over here from India. Global company but they were absolutely clueless, particularly at the Indian end.
 
maybe manter is pretty accurate in some of the guessing...

the company he came from is our indian sister company. each region is a physically separate entity but we operate under a global group banner and aside from the accounting bits operate as one company.
Fair enough - maybe drawing from my own experiences too much. Even though it is part of the same group the situation as you described it earlier just sounded like regular outsourcing to me
 
just had one of the people who works for me ask for a call this evening.

long and short of it is one of the other guys lets call him "stupid", who is new to the company has some "attitude issues" wrt women. Apparently he seems to think they (women that is) are subservient to him (as a male) and this has caused all sorts of jolly goings on today...

so 20:00 hours this evening should make my life more interesting for a bit...

I think it's ok for an employee to post about things the employer does; it has to do with the directions of the power relationship.

Not so sure it's ok for an employer to go onto a blog and complain about an employee.
 
Just out of interest, Pingu, how have you found the mechanics of the secondment? I've recently had a client (an individual in this instance) who was seconded over here from India. Global company but they were absolutely clueless, particularly at the Indian end.


In the main I have found the indian guys we have used before to be fine. they have a different way of working but our internal training programme irons out most of the wrinkles. it is however a very very niche area we operate in and its not a skill you can aquire in university etc, its very product specific and the only way to get training is to work for a company that uses the product - there are no publicly available training courses.

I know from other parts of the company that there have been issues with the more generic skillsets and people supplied by india but for what we do its very easy to weed out people who are blagging it.
 
I think it's ok for an employee to post about things the employer does; it has to do with the directions of the power relationship.

Not so sure it's ok for an employer to go onto a blog and complain about an employee.
He's not an employer, he's a manager. And there is nothing he's said that identifies, even vaguely, who it is and where etc. he's been v careful.
 
I've explained why I thought it was outsourcing. Should I just leave you to it?


lol - I can see where you were coming from. if we had done exactly the same thing but outside of the group I would agree it was outsourcing. I guess technically it is but ... its not IYKWIM
 
In the main I have found the indian guys we have used before to be fine. they have a different way of working but our internal training programme irons out most of the wrinkles. it is however a very very niche area we operate in and its not a skill you can aquire in university etc, its very product specific and the only way to get training is to work for a company that uses the product - there are no publicly available training courses.

I know from other parts of the company that there have been issues with the more generic skillsets and people supplied by india but for what we do its very easy to weed out people who are blagging it.
Aye, you've explained to me before how niche it is. You've also been quite specific as to the skills ... There's no chance this guy is identifiable is there?

My question was more about the mechanics of contract, currency, cross charging blah blah. It was just an aside tbh.
 
yeh too careful. if there'd been a bit of indiscretion i would have enjoyed the thread more.

:p

tbh at first I didn't think it was as serious as its turned out (subject to confirmation) to be. it I did I wouldn't have posted anything. I thought it was just "laddish behaviour" that I could have easily dealt with but as it turns out (again subject to confirmation) it isn't. there was actually something in an earlier post that I removed just in case that if you spotted it could have given you the country the incident took place in. just to be on the safe side I removed the reference.
 
Aye, you've explained to me before how niche it is. You've also been quite specific as to the skills ... There's no chance this guy is identifiable is there?

My question was more about the mechanics of contract, currency, cross charging blah blah. It was just an aside tbh.


nah, its a rare skillset but not that rare. I did some careful considerations before posting that.

mechanics wise... all I see is the cross charging, I don't really care how the accounts show it (but would guess it shows as an intercompany transaction)
 
I realise that I said "I'd say that I can't imagine people behaving like that these days but unfortunately I can" which might be misinterpreted here - I'd like to say that while I've worked with lots of teams abroad, I don't mean to imply that I associate sexist attitudes with foreigners, because that would be (a) racist and (b) untrue. It is unfortunately something I've seen everywhere. In fact the worst examples have been in the US, in my experience, but that doesn't mean that I think US citizens are any more sexist than anyone else either.
 
nah, its a rare skillset but not that rare. I did some careful considerations before posting that.

mechanics wise... all I see is the cross charging, I don't really care how the accounts show it (but would guess it shows as an intercompany transaction)
Yeah, I know you're careful. Just thought I'd double check.

The mechanics thing, just professional curiosity tbh. Doesn't matter, but thanks.
 
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