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Just found out a guy who works for me is being a git

eeek. We had one of those- a Lebanese guy who wasn't big on women in positions of authority (or black people). Despite the cultural thing, over here there is usually something in the contract of employment or employee guide that says treat people equally regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc so we disciplined on that basis. (We fired him in the end- he c/wouldn't change)
 
Yeah there's all manner of equality legislation you can wave at him if it gets to that stage. I'm sure I'm not alone in being very interested in the outcome of this incident Pingu :D
 
Now this guy is seconded from our Indian company so I need to be aware that there is possibly a cultural angle to this and not just "this guy is a total dick" so it may be able to be handled with some education. But his time on that client site is now over, I will be pulling him off site as per the clients request (which I will be getting tomorrow) and we will need to see what we can do about the attitude and if we can subsequently place him elsewhere or if he should be RTU'd

If he's smart enough to be sent on secondment to the UK, he should have been smart enough to work out that's not how we do things here.
 
not saying any cultural things should be an excuse. BUT if its something we didn't pick up on during induction etc and we can use education to sort it out...

of course it could just be he really is a dick and if that turns out to be the case he will be RTUd
 
the cultural thing should not be used as an excuse.
often is though- most 'wtf?' moment of my time in HR was a regularly absent Nigerian guy, called into a disciplinary who said it was in the Nigerian culture to be absent/late and we were discriminating on the basis of national characteristics. Only three disciplinaries I had to walk out of to laugh- that was one :D
 
"Mr Stupid" is well out of order, and stoner / weeps are both right.

I'm surprised that this "situation" hasn't come to light before, but it needs to be sorted.
Pingu needs to hear his side.....but, IMO if he "doesn't improve" then (maybe) he needs to be elsewhere.
 
Massive over assumption there I'm afraid. Worked with a lot of staff flown in from all ends of the earth and the majority are 'middling'.

If I can be arsed to learn the customs in India when I go travelling there, it's not unreasonable to expect people to make the effort if they come here to work. Especially as I'd have thought it will be a nice pay rise for him.
 
Cultural differences are one thing, but why work for a Western company where things will be clearly different in that case?

Pingu : definitely right to instantly remove from site. Suggest some form of re-education/reminders/cultural stuff but if he is unwilling to change his approach whilst working in a Western environment he is not the right person to work on site fullstop.

I used to have trouble with a couple of male students who had similar cultural views to your Mr Stupid when I worked in a library. Unfortunately for them, all the evening staff were women so if they wanted books, they had to interact with us. Or wait until the next day when the single male service desk worker was in.
 
So glad it is not me having to deal with this situation. I find personnel / discipline type situations quite difficult. Do you Pingu, know your organisations rights and responsibilities and / or will you have HR support?
 
If I can be arsed to learn the customs in India when I go travelling there, it's not unreasonable to expect people to make the effort if they come here to work. Especially as I'd have thought it will be a nice pay rise for him.
nah, you do a regional differential. So you pay him in his own currency at home at the same rate, then pay him an allowance to cover differential in the cost of living- so he can afford to eat here but you aren't exporting UK wages to the rest of the world
 
If I can be arsed to learn the customs in India when I go travelling there, it's not unreasonable to expect people to make the effort if they come here to work. Especially as I'd have thought it will be a nice pay rise for him.
Yes, as a woman I know there are certain parts of the world where I would have difficulty working due to cultural differences, and I know that if I were to go to some countries I would have to dress very modestly for example. It works both ways.
 
Yes, as a woman I know there are certain parts of the world where I would have difficulty working due to cultural differences, and I know that if I were to go to some countries I would have to dress very modestly for example. It works both ways.
interestingly, less than you'd think. I worked in Dubai for a bit and have attended a workshop in Saudi, and they never noticed what I wore, ignored my comments etc- they just seemed to regard me as a third gender, or a different species or something. Obv I didn't wear a super mini, but just ordinary work clothes
 
whilst he is working for the UK company he is paid the UK rate - not fair to have him doing the same work as one of our own people and be paid less. in the past we have done what Manter said but that's not the way I work. if you are doing the job.. you get paid the rate for that job.

he has been with us here for 3 weeks.

yeah I know our disciplinary regs well - I wrote them :)

HR support will be there but tbh they are based in Poland and don't understand UK regs. I have access to legal advice and will most certainly be taking advantage of their opinion before initiating any disciplinary proceedings.
 
whilst he is working for the UK company he is paid the UK rate - not fair to have him doing the same work as one of our own people and be paid less. in the past we have done what Manter said but that's not the way I work. if you are doing the job.. you get paid the rate for that job.

he has been with us here for 3 weeks.

yeah I know our disciplinary regs well - I wrote them :)

HR support will be there but tbh they are based in Poland and don't understand UK regs. I have access to legal advice and will most certainly be taking advantage of their opinion before initiating any disciplinary proceedings.
but when he goes back he won't stay on the UK rate will he? That's what I mean. You pay someone an expat allowance so it is ringfenced and can be taken back when they go home- and usually keep paying in local currency in home jurisdiction for tax/continuity of benefits/covering commitments people have there reasons
 
He's not only publicly said that he doesn't think women should be in charge of men but he's also ignored a client's instructions because the representative was a woman? That's pretty fucking terrible. I can't imagine even the most old-school misogynist company liking that.

I'd say that I can't imagine people behaving like that these days but unfortunately I can.
 
whilst he is working for the UK company he is paid the UK rate - not fair to have him doing the same work as one of our own people and be paid less. in the past we have done what Manter said but that's not the way I work. if you are doing the job.. you get paid the rate for

Not just unfair to him - unfair to the rest of the workforce too. Cheap labour bringing wages down, jobs that can be done with the use of local labour etc. Obv that depends on the type of job and industry sector etc as to how much of an impact it has.
 
I recall a customer facing sales person with an absenteeism problem she blamed on an unnamed medical condition. She refused even to call to say she would be absent which made arranging cover harder. We started interviews with an eye to replacing her and then someone cleverly got her a job in another department where being present was seen as less important :)
 
Not just unfair to him - unfair to the rest of the workforce too. Cheap labour bringing wages down, jobs that can be done with the use of local labour etc. Obv that depends on the type of job and industry sector etc as to how much of an impact it has.
See my later post- it is just as unfair if an overseas assignment gets him a salary increase- you can't take that off him and when he goes home he earns more than the rest of the team combined (though not entirely true for india as their wages in IT aren't *that* low any more). So most international firms use a series of allowances to equalise income but keep fixed costs stable and stop international assignments distorting their international structures. There are a couple of ways to do it- usually by regional differential (so you take his standard of living in India and basically scale it up by a numerator provided by a firm that does such things), by comp ratio- so it he is at 82% of the M3 ratio in india, that is what you give him in the host country (advantage being that historical performance etc is reflected, year end process can go ahead as usual and you can do back to back assignments easily), and by living allowance, where a 'reasonable' amount is given to the transferee- that's the old fashioned way as it has no structure and opens more questions than it closes. regional differential is cleaner in terms of tax and benefits, comp ratio is better if you are developing a hipo and expect to move them a lot.
 
but when he goes back he won't stay on the UK rate will he? That's what I mean. You pay someone an expat allowance so it is ringfenced and can be taken back when they go home- and usually keep paying in local currency in home jurisdiction for tax/continuity of benefits/covering commitments people have there reasons

yes sorry that side is correct. he remains an employee of <indian company> but whilst over here his total salary is what we would pay the equivalent UK worker - paid via the indian company.

FridgeMagnet - I agree, but I have to hear his side first. My instinct is to just RTU him (if its true) but its a bit more complicated that that from an intercompany POV. if I just RTU him it will get messy unless I can say we have explored other options as well.
 
yes sorry that side is correct. he remains an employee of <indian company> but whilst over here his total salary is what we would pay the equivalent UK worker.

FridgeMagnet - I agree, but I have to hear his side first. My instinct is to just RTU him (if its true) but its a bit more complicated that that from an intercompany POV. if I just RTU him it will get messy unless I can say we have explored other options as well.
wot no p45? :mad:
:mad:
 
yes sorry that side is correct. he remains an employee of <indian company> but whilst over here his total salary is what we would pay the equivalent UK worker.
.
That makes sense- but it how that salary is made up- and I bet it isn't called salary, as that causes legal issues when you withdraw it. Expat management is a nightmare....
 
the indian company invoices us - they are two physically separate legal entities.. just under the same group
 
@pickmans.. cant sack him as he is not an employee of ours. I can however send him back to india.

this would cuase contractual "things" but there are clauses in the contract between us and the indian company I can invoke to cover this off
 
tbh we have a lot of 3rd party Indians working with us and I've never noticed any gender issues - but then again I am a bloke.

If he's disregarding clients instructions it could be that he's a bit of a cowboy anyway.
 
the indian company invoices us - they are two physically separate legal entities.. just under the same group
I don't think people realise how much work HR put into getting expats in the right place, on the right income etc- the invoicing mechanism makes sense from a finance pov, but where is he paid? in what currency? what are the tax and exchange rate implications? How is he using a UK bank account without UK history etc- all I mean is that as a line manager, you get a warm body fresh off the plane, and an invoice.... you don't see the amount of heavy lifting that goes on in the background to make sure the employee and the company remain compliant and functional

/derail, sorry
 
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