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Julie Burchill's attack on transsexuals...

8ball said:
Fair point, she's hardly making things better with that - I still don't think it merits an mass-abuse circlejerk, though.
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i can't fucking stand the liberal twitter cops, or the right wing misogynist shit - but the worst of that mass abuse, and the thing she keeps going on about, was someone tweeting to her why dont you cut your own head off - now there's worse than that on virtually every long running thread on these boards

in some countries journalists get killed, imprisoned and tortured, here they're all whinging (not just moore, laurie, owen and all the rest of them) that someone was a bit rude to them on twitter

its fucking pathetic
 
smokedout said:
i can't fucking stand the liberal twitter cops, or a lot of the right wing misogynist shit - but the worst of that mass abuse, and the thing she keeps going on about, was someone tweeting to her why dont you cut your own head off - now there's worse than that on virtually every long running thread on these boards
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I'd read somewhere about physical threats, but if you're trusting the victim to carry it out it loses some of its potency.
 
8ball said:
I'd read somewhere about physical threats, but if you're trusting the victim to carry it out it loses some of its potency.
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i've never seen any evidence of that, more things like this

Jᴏᴇ Sᴛᴀᴄᴋ ‏@chocoboner
@OwenJones84 lol you're a cheap fucking parody of a socialist who's only in it for the money and you're denouncing karen as a cliche???

again, strong but not unlike something youd read on here and imo not even a bannable offence, to which Jones replied

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84
@chocoboner I'm a lifelong socialist and an activist. I write as a means to an end. And you are just an abusive anonymous troll

apart from the fact he wasn't trolling, who knows whether joe stack is his real name (although it probably isn't) - but i suspect anonymous actually means not famous
 
Done now. Moore using her twitter account to label criticism as misogyny and that it's men telling her what to do. Luckily she's got the menopause and it makes her not care.

:D
 
I never complained because I'd rather see journalists hang themselves, but I saw this on Facebook from someone who I am acquainted with, they're gay and I think like to dress as a man when they can. Anyway, they received this response:

Over 800 complaints



Thank you for your complaint about article published by The Observer on 13 January with the headline “Transsexuals should cut it out”. The Press Complaints Commission received over 800 complaints about this article. I am sorry for the short delay in reverting to you while we processed the complaints.

When it receives multiple complaints about a single issue, the PCC’s standard procedure is to select a lead complainant for the purposes of its investigation. We have done so and are now investigating the matter using that individual as a correspondent. We will seek to feed all the concerns raised – including under Clause 1 (Accuracy), Clause 4 (Harassment), and Clause 12 (Discrimination) – into this process and will let you know the outcome of our investigation when we can.

With best wishes

Yours sincerely



Simon Yip
Complaints Coordinator

Press Complaints Commission
Halton House
20/23 Holborn
London EC1N 2JD

Tel: 020 7831 0022
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firky said:
Useless and spineless
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Pretty much, yes.

I refer you to the single harshest sanction the PCC can currently deliver according to their own website:

6. What is the PCC's greatest sanction?


The PCC's greatest sanction is issuing a critical adjudication against a newspaper or magazine (see above for a full explanation of this). This is a very strong deterrent which effectively acts as a powerful ‘name and shame' sanction as editors do not like having to publicise their mistakes to their staff, readers and competitors. Under the system of self regulation the publication will then have to publish this text in full on its own pages, with a headline reference to the PCC, and with ‘due prominence'.

If the breach is particularly serious, the Commission can also refer the editor to his or her publisher. As most editors (and, increasingly, many journalists) have adherence to the PCC Code written into his or her employment contract, a serious breach can have severe consequences in terms of their future employment.



Click to expand...



Basically, the PCC's best shot is to tell everybody that you've been naughty and make your paper put in a piece to that effect. Truly terrifying if your editor cares more about sales and circulation than they do about the PCC (most editors couldn't give a damn for the PCC unless they're forced to, by the way).
 
8ball said:
I don't really get the transphobic hostility in some feminist quarters - it's been explained to me as something akin to the women in false beards at the 'men only' meeting in Life Of Brian, but 'the patriarchy' persuading a squad of men to cut their nobs off in order to eavesdrop on some wayward women would surely be too implausible for even Python to run with. :confused:
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I dunno. I pretend no understanding, and certainly have no direct knowledge, but it's not hard to find clues like this one, from 2011:


They believe that females have no rights to any space or service or gathering, public or private, that excludes the presence of males, or that exists for the benefit of female fellowship, or for the protection of females from potential male predation. It’s true! That’s what transgender activists believe, and that is what they are fighting- sometimes literally with violence and terrorism – to enforce on females. It’s also worth noting that female spaces and organizations (whether public or private) that exist for Lesbian women are the target of most of the terrorism harassment and boundary violation of these women-hating, homophobic males.
Some of these male-supremacist activists violate the boundaries of female spaces in the most direct manner. They simply ignore the wishes of the women and insert themselves in female spaces in a hostile act of unwanted penetration.
Here is a partial list of incidents involving these men at this year’s festival, as posted by Graceaware on the Michfest forum:
“0.1. a female-born womon is told “I am more woman than you” by a trans woman
0.2. a trans woman’s detailed narrative about masturbating with her penis and cock ring is read aloud in a sex-for-one workshop for pre-orgasmic womyn, triggering the sexual trauma of one woman severely and upsetting and triggering several others. (Alice K)
0.3. a trans woman with a penis is seen nude at the shower by a woman born female and her four-year-old granddaughter
0.4. a trans woman’s erection is noticed at a party in the Zone
0.5.a penis is seen at the WOC Burlesque show
0.6. a WHITE trans woman wears a “Trans Women Belong Here” t-shirt to the WOC Burlesque show, offending womyn of color with the proclamation that she belongs in WOC space (Angel S)
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and so on.

I've no idea if any of that is true, but the simple fact that some people believe such allegations may help explain the hostility.
 
There's far too much old school (male) politics flying about here. People taking hard-line dualistic positions and 'demanding' rights. Transwimmin (or whatver the pc word is) should be getting on with their own lives more and spending less time pushing for access (a very male feature....) into women-only areas. They see it as a principle but a principle is just an intellectual construct, a head thing. They think they are women but thinking alone does not make it so: the thing happens slowly, over years, as hormones gently work their magick. It's the hormones that do it, not the word on the page nor the thought in the head, nor the attitude you strike. Those transwomen causing the conflict are probably very new on the block, full of the zealotry that marks a person who has just 'come out'. They think there's an important principle here and they want to confront it. But they forget that their main job is not to fight for trans rights but to become women and you don't become a woman by confronting other women and demanding they notice you. That's just boy stuff, 'look-at-me-mummy' stuff.

That said, being politicised in an old-school way, these trans-women know of the decades-old antipathy of feminism towards transsexualism and it is probably that that pushes them. That text quoted above just stinks of transphobia, exaggeration, even outright lies maybe.

Women, traditionally, don't resolve their differences by fighting, by confrontation, but by talking. I think the thing will resolve itself eventually but dualistic male political posturing will only hinder it and won't help it.

Blah blah blah.
 
How I hate that site, but I have no problem believing that the occasional problematic incident can occur on either side and then be used by extremists to peddle their hate.

Although in practical terms there is some truth to what you said about hormones, I wouldnt put it like that myself, its a dangerous oversimplification that Im really tempted to find quite offensive, and nor do I intend to lecture anybody else about 'what their job is'.
 
elbows said:
How I hate that site, but I have no problem believing that the occasional problematic incident can occur on either side and then be used by extremists to peddle their hate.

Although in practical terms there is some truth to what you said about hormones, I wouldnt put it like that myself, its a dangerous oversimplification that Im really tempted to find quite offensive, and nor do I intend to lecture anybody else about 'what their job is'.
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Go on, tell me why you think it is an oversimplification and why you might find it offensive. I won't get offended. I'm interested.
 
Well I was under the impression that what gender people identify with is a head thing, and that matters a lot. We cant dismiss any aspect of the human condition as simply being an intellectual principal, since we experience everything via our minds, our perceptions of reality are real in their own right, linked to but not completely subservient to physical reality.

And I dont think that its a good idea to suggest that the process of someone changing their body to more accurately reflect the person they are should be mixed together with statements about whether someone is really a woman 'yet' or not.

I'm not going to go crazy about this because I think I can appreciate what you were trying to get at given what lead us to this particular conversation. eg the talk of erect penises causing problems at womens events or certain attitudes being brought to the party which are going to cause problems. But the very suggestion that some of the trans people are making terrible mistakes at these events because they are still behaving too much like men is a dangerous stance because its using a logic which follows stereotypical ideas about gender, which is surely doomed when it comes to both trans and feminist issues.
 
Oh blimey I just realised you are the same person I was arguing with about the use of certain terms. I dont want this to be a repeated personal clash so I'm going to step away now and would like some other people to have their say since I cannot rule out the possibility that there is just something about our mutual use of language which causes friction. Maybe I am wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or authority on these matters.
 
elbows said:
Oh blimey I just realised you are the same person I was arguing with about the use of certain terms. I dont want this to be a repeated personal clash so I'm going to step away now and would like some other people to have their say since I cannot rule out the possibility that there is just something about our mutual use of language which causes friction. Maybe I am wrong, I'm not exactly an expert or authority on these matters.
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There is no animosity here. We are both trying to reach some sort of truths, according to our own lights, understandings and experiences. We differed on the use of a single word, that's all. I may be looser than you but that may be because of my experiences. It's a bit late now but I may come back about your larger post tomorrow.....
 
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