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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

There's no doubt he needed to be steelier, more decisive, less bloody nice. AS was a fuck up and dismissed for far too long and by the time it wasn't it was being cynically weaponised. Generally the campaign this time wasn't focused, there was way too much policy with no clear message.

I'm a little suspicious of the rush to make it all on Corbyn because it feels like many of the people keenest to demonise Corbyn are keenest to get back to the kind of "centre-left", "sensible", Rejoin EU, non-class politics that I think will consign Labour to ever greater oblivion. And I'm not assuming anyone here is doing that, but there's plenty of people generally doing precisely that.
 
Proper Tidy said:
Corbyn was a problem as spy and kebab say, obviously can't deny that, polling shows people disincentivised to vote labour due to (in this order) corbyn, brexit position, and policy a distant third (policy being broadly popular).

Hard to distinguish between factors behind that, and some of that is that corbyn a london MP, perceived rightly or wrongly as somebody not of a more traditional w/c labour background, a professional campaigner, bit studenty & shouty - but pickman's model right, also can't be disentangled from public treatment of corbyn, it's blind to ignore the gross unfairness of that against other politicians. The dissipation of that during '17 campaign, that often when prompted those citing corbyn then cited brexit, and the very obvious one that labour got battered in leave leaning seats but held some notable marginal remain leaning seats clearly indicates that the key issue here was brexit position and perception that ignoring the result. The only key change from '17 to '19 was the second referendum.

My view is that doubts over leadership could be overcome, brexit position couldn't
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Corbyn knew he was done for as 2019 rolled on, shot to bits as he was from all sides, and was supposedly ready to stand aside. Rumours abounded. The fuck up was they couldn't find a good moment to do it. I guess events got in the way and they kept deferring it - hard to go into a new leadership campaign with everything else going on around Brexit, and the worry that the project/direction might swing in a different direction. But they shouldve, and this is the price.
 
cupid_stunt said:
I thought that this long after the result, people would have started to accept reality, that being Corbyn was a major problem.

I don't blame him over the Brexit, he was fucked, as a leaver in charge of a remain party, he was between a rock & a hard place.

I don't think he's anti-semitic, but he failed to get to grip with the anti-semitism in the party soon enough, too little, too late.

No point blaming the media coverage, he was hammered by that in 2017, yet did well.

Trouble is, people have witnessed his total lack of leadership over the last two & half years, and that combined with the confused message over Brexit is what caused this problem.

Of course, the fact that he came across as a retiring sweet-shop owner, giving his last stock away for free to any passing kids didn't help.

Free broadband everyone? It'll only cost £230m a year! Oops, we left a zero off that figure, so suddenly it became over £2bn in their little grey book of costings.

After that was published, oh fuck, Johnson was asked about the Waspi women on the telly, next morning suddenly another £58bn became available to look after them, not in their costed figures.

Johnson is a cunt, but he didn't win this election, Corbyn & Labour lost it, they are to blame.
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Back in the day the Labour Party had a rapid rebuttal unit. They could really have done with it this time, they could and should have responded more decisively to anti-semitism stuff, but two other things is to have prepared more adequately for an election of choice, and to have limited themselves to a few headline policies so it wasn't there's an app for that all the fucking time
 
brogdale said:
View attachment 192895
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I couple of people I work with went to help canvas in Thurrock, as well as locally around here. I don't know how typical they are, but they are both long time council manual workers and seasoned union activists rather than naive young students or whatever is being suggested.

TBF, it sounds like they struggled to make much progress against the overwhelming wish to just get Brexit done.
 
andysays said:
I couple of people I work with went to help canvas in Thurrock, as well as locally around here. I don't know how typical they are, but they are both long time council manual workers and seasoned union activists rather than naive young students or whatever is being suggested.

TBF, it sounds like they struggled to make much progress against the overwhelming wish to just get Brexit done.
Click to expand...
The doing of Brexit will never be done, it will be with us forever
 
kebabking said:
he was poison the day he was elected. the difference between 2017 and 2019 was that in 2017 Labour was a 'respect the referendum' party, and voters thought that if they voted Labour, Corbyn would wander off to his allotment fairly quickly. by 2019, when the electorate still didn't like him, Labour had become a 'we know you had a referendum, but you're too thick to make big decisions' party, and it had become clear that if you voted Labour, you'd get Corbyn for the full term.

add that together and you get the number of lost seats.
Click to expand...

That’s the “it was all about Brexit” perspective.

Is it that simple?
 
ska invita said:
Corbyn knew he was done for as 2019 rolled on, shot to bits as he was from all sides, and was supposedly ready to stand aside. Rumours abounded. The fuck up was they couldn't find a good moment to do it. I guess events got in the way and they kept deferring it - hard to go into a new leadership campaign with everything else going on around Brexit, and the worry that the project/direction might swing in a different direction. But they shouldve, and this is the price.
Click to expand...

Or not promised a second referendum. Not either/or I suppose but saying bin corbyn as solution in isolation, as many are (not aimed at you), wouldn't have addressed that
 
andysays said:
I couple of people I work with went to help canvas in Thurrock, as well as locally around here. I don't know how typical they are, but they are both long time council manual workers and seasoned union activists rather than naive young students or whatever is being suggested.

TBF, it sounds like they struggled to make much progress against the overwhelming wish to just get Brexit done.
Click to expand...
Lisa M just deals in charicatures and stereotypes.
 
Plumdaff said:
There's no doubt he needed to be steelier, more decisive, less bloody nice. AS was a fuck up and dismissed for far too long and by the time it wasn't it was being cynically weaponised. Generally the campaign this time wasn't focused, there was way too much policy with no clear message.

I'm a little suspicious of the rush to make it all on Corbyn because it feels like many of the people keenest to demonise Corbyn are keenest to get back to the kind of "centre-left", "sensible", Rejoin EU, non-class politics that I think will consign Labour to ever greater oblivion. And I'm not assuming anyone here is doing that, but there's plenty of people generally doing precisely that.
Click to expand...

The Economist - take it as you will - did a write up saying the centre is dead.

maybe free article...

Jeremy Corbyn’s crushing defeat
 
paolo said:
That’s the “it was all about Brexit” perspective.

Is it that simple?
Click to expand...

no, its not - but the feeling (fact?) that Labour simply wasn't listening to them over brexit (it had stopped being about brexit in 2016 and had become about democratic legitimacy), and Corbyn with all his baggage was more than enough.

respecting referenda and having a leader that a sizable proportion of your potential electorate don't think is a traitor is not the whole path to power, but they are pretty good starting points.
 
chilango said:
Enjoy the next the days Sass as I don't imagine you're going to enjoy what's coming over the next few years....
Click to expand...

From a personal point of view, I'm pretty much bulletproof.

We're retired, so no jobs to lose, more than sufficient income (we are actually saving money), we live in a pleasant enough place with good air quality. All in all, fine.

I would point out that between us we made just short of 100 years of tax and NI contributions. What we have, we worked for.

Changes no doubt will be coming, they have to. I'm not naive, but do hope that the promises of increased spending on housing and the NHS are honoured. Housing is the biggest crisis at the moment. If Johnson delivers, particularly in the North, Labour will be fucked again at the next election. If he doesn't, well, that will depend on who is elected as the next labour leader. I see that the deranged McDonnell has stood down, a pity he hadn't done so before scaring the shit out of so many voters.
 
paolo said:
That’s the “it was all about Brexit” perspective.

Is it that simple?
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't. A daft manifesto, antisemitism, people's dislike of Corbyn, the idiocy of Abbot... etc. Many factors.

They should have taken a lesson from the humiliation of Foot, they didn't. Britain isn't a country of extremes (there are the professional malcontents, which like all empty vessels, create a noise level above their size), the current Labour elite despise Blair, yet Blair won elections. Blair won by moving into the centre ground, Corbyn and his allies had too much hubris to do so. The loss of the seats in the heartlands shocked even me... it really shows what a fucking shower Corbyn and allies are.
 
Sasaferrato said:
No, it wasn't. A daft manifesto, antisemitism, people's dislike of Corbyn, the idiocy of Abbot... etc. Many factors.

They should have taken a lesson from the humiliation of Foot, they didn't. Britain isn't a country of extremes (there are the professional malcontents, which like all empty vessels, create a noise level above their size), the current Labour elite despise Blair, yet Blair won elections. Blair won by moving into the centre ground, Corbyn and his allies to much hubris to do so. The loss of the seats in the heartlands shocked even me... it really shows what a fucking shower Corbyn and allies are.
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Blair is an extremist

Do you honestly not recall how he precipitated massacres in Kosovo? How he was happy to starve children in Iraq?
 
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