Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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Supine
Newt Member
He won't be winning any awards for communication skills that's for sure.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Trouble is, he's so hemmed in by his own position, that of the members and MPs and most of all the dilemma of deciding who Labour's base is, that he's doing nothing at all. Viewed as a short/medium term political scenario, the tories are in a much better position than Labour. Johnson/raab or similar shitlump that wins the tory leadership will have clarity and a mission - do Brexit, restore trust, win the electorate back from farage. That it will probably end in no deal tears is a different matter. What have Labour got, do they know who they are? Feels to me like the whole Corbyn/Momentum thing has run it's course. These are not the times for worthy mutterings about bringing the country back together.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Hard to imagine anything but more of the same. Labour under pressure from both sides. Enough to let in the BP. Not enough time for a Tory revival. Little chance of a Green or LD win, but will take Labour votes.
Headlines write themselves, Watson apoplectic, Corbyn down the allotment.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Have you looked at the constituency?
Both the LDs and Grns lost their deposits at the last two GEs.
The vote for leaving the EU was 62.1%, however, UKIP took 16% of the vote (7,500 votes) in 2015, less than half of the Labour vote.
Both the LDs and Grns lost their deposits at the last two GEs.
The vote for leaving the EU was 62.1%, however, UKIP took 16% of the vote (7,500 votes) in 2015, less than half of the Labour vote.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
But that’s Brexit, an utter distraction for Labour, without obvious favourable resolution.
But we saw at the last election that Labour’s message can cut across and quite quickly. Brexit is preventing that by sucking up all the oxygen.
That itself should be a target. The electorate is frankly a bit hysterical about Brexit. That hysteria needs puncturing. A disinterested third person from overseas could look at the UK’s ‘crisis’, our foodbanks and say ‘get over yourselves’.
A move on campaign could be something like,
Will Brexit mean I can see my GP more quickly? Who knows, but without Labour you won’t.
Will Brexit repair run down schools? No Labour will.
Will Brexit protect jobs? No Labour will.
This won’t convince nationalists and those most hawkish on either side, but it’s important ground setting for the inevitable disappointment of one side of the argument or maybe both. Maybe an attack on the politics of Brexit, Leave and Remain props up an argument for a compromise exit. But in any event it positions Labour ready to win the war in the long term.
Labour has no reason to treat Brexit with kid gloves, nor for that matter Remain. What has the referendum given us so far? Swivel eyed Remain loons shouting at Swivel eyed Brexit ones. Nationalism, the revival of the Lib Dem’s. What’s not to hate?
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
Are there many "doveish" Remainers or Brexiters? I'd quite like us to stay if they removed a few of the more nefarious neolib policies or I'd quite like us to leave as long as we basically have most of the same trading advantages but none of the responsibility
Everyone I've spoken to about it wants what they voted for to happen and soon.
Everyone I've spoken to about it wants what they voted for to happen and soon.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'm not sure I'd simply call brexit a 'distraction'. At one level it certainly is - Cameron didn't need to call it, but here we are several years on, still distracted. But equally, brexit has been a litmus test thing, exposing the nature of/flaws in Labour's coalition of working class voters, urban professionals and the rest. Maybe it's too easy a parallel, but pretty much the same thing Trump did in America, exposing the uneasy coalition(s) that make up the democrats.
I do though agree about the italicised bit... kind of. At a pragmatic, even cynical level, it would have been a way to say something over the last 3 years. Problem is, the statements you use are can only hold for a while. In the end, Labour has to be something. My take is that the Corbyn/momentum thing has much less focus now even than when he was elected leader.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
There is a fascinating debate now breaking out on the labour left with brexit the proxy issue for a battle royale over the entire trajectory and future of the party
In one sense the position of Mason and others is merely the continuation of the Blair/Mandelsohn strategy that chased liberal middle class votes and assumed the working class in the post industrial areas ‘had nowhere else to go’. There is one important difference of course. Blair pursued this line to ensure new Labour could be seen as the most competent group to manage the affairs of neo-liberal economics.
In the case of Corbyn and his supporters the approach is to introduce ‘socialism’ without the support of the areas presumably where they think their politics will be most transformative.
Both camps within this group are beginning to recognise the value in each other position, for obviously different reasons.
Corbyn will probably face a third leadership challenge this summer, but far more significantly will have to try to hold together two warring camps within his diaspora. On one hand there will be those like Tribune’s author that recognise a need to engage with and win over post industrial working class areas and to keep the working class in the collation. On the other hand a growing militant demand by Mason and others for a clean break with the prices and for labour to throw its lot in, France style, with the middle class, students and cosmopolitan working class of the south and big cities.
If the latter camp win out the space opened up for populist politics becomes chasm like. The right are clearly better placed to fill this gap but the space also exists for pro working class politics of the left.
Hold the Line
In one sense the position of Mason and others is merely the continuation of the Blair/Mandelsohn strategy that chased liberal middle class votes and assumed the working class in the post industrial areas ‘had nowhere else to go’. There is one important difference of course. Blair pursued this line to ensure new Labour could be seen as the most competent group to manage the affairs of neo-liberal economics.
In the case of Corbyn and his supporters the approach is to introduce ‘socialism’ without the support of the areas presumably where they think their politics will be most transformative.
Both camps within this group are beginning to recognise the value in each other position, for obviously different reasons.
Corbyn will probably face a third leadership challenge this summer, but far more significantly will have to try to hold together two warring camps within his diaspora. On one hand there will be those like Tribune’s author that recognise a need to engage with and win over post industrial working class areas and to keep the working class in the collation. On the other hand a growing militant demand by Mason and others for a clean break with the prices and for labour to throw its lot in, France style, with the middle class, students and cosmopolitan working class of the south and big cities.
If the latter camp win out the space opened up for populist politics becomes chasm like. The right are clearly better placed to fill this gap but the space also exists for pro working class politics of the left.
Hold the Line
The emails i received from the party for the EU elections all went on about the BP being a far right party, etc.
LEFT2030
There is a new 'internationalist' faction, with Mason, Chessum, Zoe Williams, etc, starting, not sure how popular it will be in many labour areas.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
The BP will love that. Just fits in with the ‘they are calling you racists for expressing a view’ card.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes. I’m not convinced that the culture war has replaced class as the key dialectic determinant but you are correct that the fault line within Corbynism is being stretched and tested on a new scale now. America and the democrats is a partially accurate comparison but I think the parallels with France and the left there are more precise
The sense that the working class was part of the project in the first place is dubious. A part of it - clearly defined by geography, economic factors and other factors was - with other sections reluctant or antagonistic or already lost due to Blair and new labour.
We are now, I think, about to see this played out on a decisive scale.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
All over social media.
Read the comments on the article I’ve just posted and also on Mason’s guardian piece
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
That looks horrendous. Like Change UK for former revolutionaries.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Alistair Campbell has been expelled from the party (assumedly for backing Lib Dems) 
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Alistair Campbell has been expelled from the party (assumedly for backing Lib Dems)
There's something to cheer you up!
Ultimately the problem with the Labour left is that they just aren't willing to split the Labour Party, but this is at least pleasant to hear.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Lol
Plumdaff
joy in people
Wasn't Mason calling for stronger immigration controls in order to hold onto the Labour heartlands only a month or so ago?
Our problem is two groups in the population unwilling to compromise but unable, numerically, to push through what they want. The centrist Remainers can now blame Corbyn for any second referendum defeat rather than examinating their failing politics at any level.
Our problem is two groups in the population unwilling to compromise but unable, numerically, to push through what they want. The centrist Remainers can now blame Corbyn for any second referendum defeat rather than examinating their failing politics at any level.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Telling which 'labour voters' who want to 'come home' Hinsliff & co identify
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
margaret hodge, the paedophiles' friend?
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