Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Smokeandsteam]

As I understand it PE isn't an employee of the FBU, he's an employee of the Fire Service and as such the FBU can't 'sack' him. I suspect he's been booted off the NEC of which he is an elected member.

Does anyone know exactly what he's been accused of? Specifically. Surely supporting Leave isn't an offence in the FBU? If so most of their regional committee in the West Midlands will also be suspended.

I presume PE can appeal - and if his 'crime' is vocal opposition to the EU then he certainly should.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

but then for me, him posting this kind of crap, RT'd from a random rightwinger last week, just looks like straight up up racist tinged alarmism - he's a proper wrong un', and the direction of his future political trajectory looks nailed on - good riddance .

How is posting a video of a tear up between a bunch of black schoolkids and a bunch of black and white drinkers 'racist tinged'??

 

[belboid]

As I understand it PE isn't an employee of the FBU, he's an employee of the Fire Service and as such the FBU can't 'sack' him. I suspect he's been booted off the NEC of which he is an elected member.

Does anyone know exactly what he's been accused of? Specifically. Surely supporting Leave isn't an offence in the FBU? If so most of their regional committee in the West Midlands will also be suspended.

I presume PE can appeal - and if his 'crime' is vocal opposition to the EU then he certainly should.

Removed from the exec and barred from office for two years - for bringing the FBU into disrepute. And it's not for supporting leave per se, but for supporting the far right-wing Leave Means Leave. Like supporting the Brexit Party, that is a step too far.

 

[SpackleFrog]

As I understand it PE isn't an employee of the FBU, he's an employee of the Fire Service and as such the FBU can't 'sack' him. I suspect he's been booted off the NEC of which he is an elected member.

Does anyone know exactly what he's been accused of? Specifically. Surely supporting Leave isn't an offence in the FBU? If so most of their regional committee in the West Midlands will also be suspended.

I presume PE can appeal - and if his 'crime' is vocal opposition to the EU then he certainly should.

I think it will be some catch all term that is used, like bringing the union into disrepute, but also that it will be argued that he brought the union into disrepute by very publicly attending a rally of UKIP/DUP types. It is probably fair enough an elected leader of the union shouldn't be doing that, most unions have policies about associating with far right.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I think it will be some catch all term that is used, like bringing the union into disrepute, but also that it will be argued that he brought the union into disrepute by very publicly attending a rally of UKIP/DUP types. It is probably fair enough an elected leader of the union shouldn't be doing that, most unions have policies about associating with far right.

Is this the Leave Means Leave Campaign that Kelvin Hopkins and other labour MPs and types are supporters of (according to the LML website)?

I could understand the suspension if he was on a fascist platform but unless I’m missing something he spoke at a meeting of a group that has cross party support (albeit dominated by BP figures).

 

[Smokeandsteam]

And it's not for supporting leave per se.

I heard about this last night from members of the FBU here in Brum. Let’s put it this way, if supporting leave is now a crime punishable by expulsion by the FBU, they are going to run short of stewards very quickly.

ETA: my understanding of the FBU policy on Brexit is that it’s not got one because it recognised its membership was split on the issue but that is accepted the result...

FBU statement on the EU referendum result

 

[belboid]

Is this the Leave Means Leave Campaign that Kelvin Hopkins and other labour MPs and types are supporters of (according to the LML website)?

I could understand the suspension if he was on a fascist platform but unless I’m missing something he spoke at a meeting of a group that has cross party support (albeit dominated by BP figures).

I can't seen any reference to any supporters on their website. I can see their opening line

The scale of betrayal in this sad story has descended to further depths. Theresa May and the Conservatives would now rather deal with a Marxist than honour their promise to take Britain out of the European Union.

https://www.leavemeansleave.eu/

 

[Mr Moose]

Is this the Leave Means Leave Campaign that Kelvin Hopkins and other labour MPs and types are supporters of (according to the LML website)?

I could understand the suspension if he was on a fascist platform but unless I’m missing something he spoke at a meeting of a group that has cross party support (albeit dominated by BP figures).

It’s a ‘legitimate’ organisation in that respect and so it’s hard to see how he could be disciplined. It’s also like a who’s who of who might like to take workers rights backwards which underlines the murk into which getting evangelical about leaving the EU gets you.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It’s also like a who’s who of who might like to take workers rights backwards which underlines the murk into which getting evangelical about leaving the EU gets you.

The issue here is the FBU decision to boot a senior steward off their executive. The issue of how, why and the political consequences of the left and trade union movement performing a volte face on the question of the EU - thereby leaving the field open for these types - is a different debate.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I can't seen any reference to any supporters on their website. I can see their opening line


https://www.leavemeansleave.eu/

I note your quote ends right before this line "Leave Means Leave is a cross-party campaign lobbying group and is neither a political party nor a members association".

The notion that speaking at one of their meetings is a disciplinary offence is frankly pathetic

 

[belboid]

I note your quote ends right before this line "Leave Means Leave is a cross-party campaign lobbying group and is neither a political party nor a members association".

The notion that speaking at one of their meetings is a disciplinary offence is frankly pathetic

Because I don't see any evidence it is. Anyone can say they are 'cross-party' but it doesn't mean anything if you can't actually show it. There is no list of supporters on their website, so I don't know where you got Hopkins is a supporter. All there is is right-wing guff.

I suspect, that this event was the final straw that did for the reactionary twat (Embery) rather than the be all and end all.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Because I don't see any evidence it is. Anyone can say they are 'cross-party' but it doesn't mean anything if you can't actually show it. There is no list of supporters on their website, so I don't know where you got Hopkins (that right-wing shit) is a supporter. All there is is right-wing guff.

I suspect, that this event was the final straw that did for the reactionary twat rather than the be all and end all.

Hopkins is named as a supporter on their Wiki page and his own plus in numerous articles. Google it.

So, are you now claiming that speaking at this meeting was only one of his offences? What are the others?

 

[Signal 11]

What are the others?

Union official told to ‘cease’ social media after ‘rootless cosmopolitans’ tweet

 

[belboid]

Hopkins is named as a supporter on their Wiki page and his own plus in numerous articles. Google it.

So, are you now claiming that speaking at this meeting was only one of his offences? What are the others?

So, not on the Leave Means Leave site, you could have said that in the first place Funny how the page of LML 'supporters' has now been removed from their website.

As I said, I merely suspect that it was just the latest outrage from the Blue Labourite Embery. He was told off in April for his use of anti-semitic tropes (his reply was he didn't give a fuck), and his general use of social media to insult lefties he disagreed with. He's a prominent transphobe (going against the policy of the FBU) and is, as has been mentioned, a Red-Brown Assad apologist.

Fuck him.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So, not on the Leave Means Leave site, you could have said that in the first place Funny how the page of LML 'supporters' has now been removed from their website.

As I said, I merely suspect that it was just the latest outrage from the Blue Labourite Embery. He was told off in April for his use of anti-semitic tropes (his reply was he didn't give a fuck), and his general use of social media to insult lefties he disagreed with. He's a prominent transphobe (going against the policy of the FBU) and is, as has been mentioned, a Red-Brown Assad apologist.

Fuck him.

Yes, I noted that page was down when I did my google search as well. Hmmm.

As for the rest of the rap sheet - the 'anti-semetic trope' issue as I remember it was a spat between him and Novara media posho Ash Sarkar. He used a phrase - rootless cosmopolitans - that he was pulled up about which neither he or millions of others knew the association of. I am unaware of an trans phobia or Assad apologist stuff - got any links? But other's in the labour movement have been guilty of all of these 'crimes' without sanction.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Surely the FBU just had enough of the pool of piss he's taken to swimming in on twitter etc. Perfectly consistent to back leave without palling around with the headbangers

 

[cantsin]

How is posting a video of a tear up between a bunch of black schoolkids and a bunch of black and white drinkers 'racist tinged'??

" Just a bunch of schoolkids attacking a group of adults outside a bar in south London "

you can smell it, i know you can... if you want to go on pretending otherwise, fill yr boots, no skin off my nose, just glad he's gone from the FBU one way or another, dodgy cnut

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Surely the FBU just had enough of the pool of piss he's taken to swimming in on twitter etc. Perfectly consistent to back leave without palling around with the headbangers

Maybe they have, but given he's posting in a personal capacity it's got fuck all to do with them.

Amazed to see supposed lefts on here supporting the FBU on this. The history of this type of censorious witch-hunting in the movement has got a long and disgusting past. And almost always against the left of the union. In my own union (TGWU - Unite) communist party members were banned from holding office and expelled for thought crimes in the 1950's. Another predecessor union now in Unite obsessively witch-hunted members of the Militant in the 80's. Unison has a long track record of targeting activists for their politics etc etc.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

" Just a bunch of schoolkids attacking a group of adults outside a bar in south London "

you can smell it, i know you can... if you want to go on pretending otherwise, fill yr boots, no skin off my nose, just glad he's gone from the FBU one way or another, dodgy cnut

Fucking hell, U75 has gone all salem witch trials

 

[killer b]

He used a phrase - rootless cosmopolitans - that he was pulled up about which neither he or millions of others knew the association of.

lol right.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Maybe they have, but given he's posting in a personal capacity it's got fuck all to do with them.

Amazed to see supposed lefts on here supporting the FBU on this. The history of this type of censorious witch-hunting in the movement has got a long and disgusting past. And almost always against the left of the union. In my own union (TGWU - Unite) communist party members were banned from holding office and expelled for thought crimes in the 1950's. Another predecessor union now in Unite obsessively witch-hunted members of the Militant in the 80's. Unison has a long track record of targeting activists etc etc.

Fair point although I think there is a qualitative difference between being witchunted for being on left/associated with a revolutionary socialist group v being the token trade unionist in a dodgy right wing social media bubble

 

[killer b]

I guess you could be unaware of the antisemitic roots of a phrase exclusively used by far right scum, but it's still a phrase exclusively used by far right scum anyway.

 

[belboid]

As for the rest of the rap sheet - the 'anti-semetic trop' issue as I remember it was a spat between him and Novara media posho Ash Sarkar. He used a phrase that he was pulled up about which neither he or millions of others I'd guess knew the association of.

Oh well, if it was in a spat with an asian woman, that's alright then! Although, actually, it was Mike Harding he was arguing with. So, oops! And rather than apologise for a poor choice of words, he doubled down on it. And got well praised from his co-thinkers, Blue Labour guru Glassman. Well done on copying his shit excuse though.

As for Assadism... he tweets irregularly in support of the 'there's no proof Assad did it' line. Not a hardnosed Red-Browner, but still one nevertheless.

 

[andysays]

Yes, I noted that page was down when I did my google search as well. Hmmm.

As for the rest of the rap sheet - the 'anti-semetic trope' issue as I remember it was a spat between him and Novara media posho Ash Sarkar. He used a phrase - rootless cosmopolitans - that he was pulled up about which neither he or millions of others knew the association of. I am unaware of an trans phobia or Assad apologist stuff - got any links? But other's in the labour movement have been guilty of all of these 'crimes' without sanction.

I know nothing about this guy and don't care that much, TBH , but the idea that anyone using the phrase "rootless cosmopolitans" can be defended by saying he didn't know its associations is frankly ridiculous.

It also makes me concerned about anyone who would attempt to use that defence on his behalf

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Oh well, if it was in a spat with an asian woman, that's alright then! Although, actually, it was Mike Harding he was arguing with. So, oops! And rather than apologise for a poor choice of words, he doubled down on it. And got well praised from his co-thinkers, Blue Labour guru Glassman. Well done on copying his shit excuse though.

As for Assadism... he tweets irregularly in support of the 'there's no proof Assad did it' line. Not a hardnosed Red-Browner, but still one nevertheless.

Wow. What a charge sheet. Thank fuck the FBU expelled him.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Fair point although I think there is a qualitative difference between being witchunted for being on left/associated with a revolutionary socialist group v being the token trade unionist in a dodgy right wing social media bubble

The principle is the same - the leadership use their power to expel politics and ideas they don't like.

I don't care much for the politics of Embery, the CP or the Militant but this type of witch-hunting always says more about those doing it than those on the receiving end. `

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I know nothing about this guy and don't care that much, TBH , but the idea that anyone using the phrase "rootless cosmopolitans" can be defended by saying he didn't know its associations is frankly ridiculous.

It also makes me concerned about anyone who would attempt to use that defence on his behalf

Are you suggesting its commonly known that 'rootless cosmopolitans' is a phrase associated with the anti-cosmopolitan policy of Stalin that disproportionately impacted Jews and had sinister AS overtones?

 

[andysays]

Are you suggesting its commonly known that 'rootless cosmopolitans' is a phrase associated with the anti-cosmopolitan policy of Stalin that disproportionately impacted Jews and had sinister AS overtones?

No, it's a very uncommon phrase, most people probably have never heard it, wouldn't know what it meant and wouldn't use it.

But this guy apparently has used it, and you're here defending him for using it...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

lol right.

At various times in my life I've been active in trade union politics, anti fascist work and community organisation.. I had never heard the phrase and knew nothing about its connotations before the spat between him and Mike Harding/Ash Sarkar.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you suggesting its commonly known that 'rootless cosmopolitans' is a phrase associated with the anti-cosmopolitan policy of Stalin that disproportionately impacted Jews and had sinister AS overtones?

not commonly known, perhaps, but commonly within the political currents you claim to move in.