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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

This is the correct thread.

Sass, it’s a bit rich for you to say I’m needling you when it was you who resurrected the issue. I’d drawn a line under it.

I know you’ll find it hard to get your head around, but you are completely barking up the wrong tree in your imagination of what it is I disapprove of in what those paras were doing. It is not some wet, liberal refusal to recognise the realities of what infantry do, but the opposite. I’m well aware of their role in the apparatus of the state. And in a supposed democracy, that is not to interfere with the running of the state by redemptive violence. Even symbolic redemptive violence. In fantasising about taking out the leader of the opposition, they politicised the armed forces. And we know where that leads, don’t we? We both know what the name is for people who applaud that, don’t we? It’s a term that you like to fling around without justification, and yet here you are, one of the very few people on these boards actually to accurately deserve the term.

And please note, I do not support Corbyn, his party, his person, his character, his abilities, or his inept soft centre social democratic managerialist programme for tinkering with capitalism. There’s much about him and his performance to disapprove of.

But the military interfering in British political life, even symbolically? - that is something I put squarely on the side of the demons. That is something that repulses and disgusts me. That is something I will always oppose.

And, no, it isn’t something I’d think of as trivial.
This is a handful of fuckwits who don't even have the nouse not to film themselves being morons. They are not "The Military".
 
No? They were perhaps civilians in a gun club? I hadn’t realised. That’s different then. In that case it’s just a bad taste prank.
You’re posting as if the entire army had just requisitioned Steptoe targets and this was the new training program. It’s not. It’s a small set of cunts who are probably about to lose their bollocks.
 
But not, and this is fundamental, by the standing army. If you can’t understand the difference, then it’s probably because you haven’t understood the role of the state.

I understand that you have made posts advocating violence against named individuals. Hypocrisy? Just a tad.
 
It is amazing how little changes over time.

WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
 
Over in Brazil right now, a rewriting of history - literally as it involves rewriting history books for schools - is under way, reframing the military dicatatorship as not a military dictatorship at all, but as, essentially, the saving of the state from the enemy within (read: socialism).

That is always how the military likes to think of their coups and the murders they commit. In Bolsonaro, they now have a president in Brazil willing to legitimise that way of thinking and the idea that violence against the left is a justified violence to protect the state.

We get a bit complacent in the UK, I think. Nothing like that could happen here, surely. Yet there was a military plot in the 70s against Wilson and his really very mildly social democratic govt. A new Corbyn-led govt emerging from a post-brexit chaos could easily produce new plots. The recent rhetoric from the tories ought to be seen in that light. So should the fact that these soldiers thought this was even close to an appropriate thing to do.
 
It gives people with anti-military agendas an opportunity to hyperbolize. So in that respect, yes.
Do you recognise that the tories have been pushing the idea that Corbyn represents a threat to national security? Do you also recognise that armies invariably organise coups in the name of national security, and even 'saving democracy'? To do that, armies need not only generals to do the plotting, but footsoldiers to do the work on the street. It's not hyperbole to see this in that context - at a minimum it is normalising for those soldiers the idea that Corbyn is the enemy.
 
It gives people with anti-military agendas an opportunity to hyperbolize. So in that respect, yes.
There are countries not very far away where some of us may have been on holiday, where there have been military coups. If this had happened there (“this” being serving members of the armed forces fantasising about taking out the leader of the opposition), you may have seen it in a different light. I wonder why you don’t see it like that here? Your regret is that it gives people a license to overreact, rather than that it is an entirely inappropriate thing for serving members of the armed forces to do, given their position.
 
There are countries not very far away where some of us may have been on holiday, where there have been military coups. If this had happened there (“this” being serving members of the armed forces fantasising about taking out the leader of the opposition), you may have seen it in a different light. I wonder why you don’t see it like that here? Your regret is that it gives people a license to overreact, rather than that it is an entirely inappropriate thing for serving members of the armed forces to do, given their position.
Could never happen here. Because, um. Well, we've got such a stable government, for starters. And the EU would throw us out...
 
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