Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Wilf]

It wasn’t though was it? Some of it, maybe, but not wholly.

It feels to me like wishful thinking to see this as a revolutionary forces at work. Those I know that voted out were anything but ignored or marginalised - the friend’s dad with a buy-to-let empire, my uncle with his generous public sector pension etc. Plenty more like that, age more an indicator than class. Most Tory voters went for out, labour voted in. A mixture of stuff driving the vote, some marginalisation but also a lot of reactionary shit too, those who don’t want their taxes going on the undeserving poor or Spanish motorways. Corbyn is never going to appeal to their interests.

Well, I agree that the motivations to vote leave were complex. But I'm not suggesting Labour should seek to organise amongst buy to let bods and the rest. I'm not even suggesting they should organise around leave voters/voting. More that they should organise in communities and start to think about the conditions that lead to brexit.

 

[mojo pixy]

The whole Brexit vote was about people feeling abandoned/ignored by politicians, capital, globalisation.

I don't know, I seem to remember quite a lot about immigration, taking back control of our borders, and Sovereignty. And I don't mean arron banks and nigel farage, I mean the local Brexit campaigners I met in person during the run up to the ref. in Kingswood, Bath, Bristol and Keynsham.

The reason I voted Remain was exactly because of the messages and tone I was hearing from the Leave campaigners I met / talked to / argued with. The Evil Superstate stuff was sellotaped on IME, what came across stronger was that it was an evil foreign superstate.

But let's keep rewriting it till it all makes sense. Why not.

 

[danny la rouge]

I don't know, I seem to remember quite a lot about immigration, taking back control of our borders, and Sovereignty

Sure, but how can you be sure none of that was about not trusting politicians/political institutions?

 

[belboid]

Margaret Beckett as having a pop at May for being 'discourteous.'

I suppose it would live things up if Theresa did call him a fucking anti-semite.

 

[treelover]

I think that's right and not doing it would inevitably pose questions about Corbyn bottling it or similar. But Labour's bigger passivity over the last 2 years has not been taking any of this out on the road, whether it be big meetings like Corbyn had when elected or, better, in communities. That's not to suggest there was an easy sell for Labour, the Party was split and it's voters are split. But they should have been doing that regardless of Brexit. The whole Brexit vote was about people feeling abandoned/ignored by politicians, capital, globalisation. What better way to combat that than to engage? I'm not part of Lab or the Corbyn thing, but that should have been their logic. Instead, they've wanted to play it as a game of parliamentary ambushes, media briefings and the rest. Again showing that Labour - even Corbyn Labour - are part of the problem.

Corbyn and especially McDonnell did exactly this throughout the summer, but it was overshadowed by the antisemitism accusations, media storm.

 

[mojo pixy]

Sure, but how can you be sure none of that was about not trusting politicians/political institutions?

European ones, sure. But not British ones, because by doing brexit we are by definition giving more power to sovereign British political institutions. Clearly they are more trustworthy.

That was approximately what I heard through the whole campaign, and it's bollocks.

 

[danny la rouge]

European ones, sure. But not British ones, because by doing brexit we are by definition giving more power to sovereign British political institutions. Clearly they are more trustworthy.

That was approximately what I heard through the whole campaign, and it's bollocks.

Nobody has claimed that the dissatisfaction was never expressed via reactionary outlets.

 

[Poi E]

My couple of Labour friends have largely dropped out of Party activity since the election, drifting towards the centre and being consumed by people's vote shit.

In a seat that Labour won spectacularly with one of the biggest swings in the election we've had one, just one, bland and vague Party newsletter through the door.

They've not bothered to build a thing on the surge of interest and support they got round here. Nothing.

Meanwhile, as they run the Council, they've carried on cutting and gentrifying and the like.

Fucking idiots.

Same story in Croydon.

 

[butchersapron]

Corbyn should def concentrate on remain voters in conservative seats where they weigh the tory vote and fickle green lib-dem types. The path to victory.

 

[belboid]

I know from my area of the midlands Corbyn has done at least half a dozen weekend meetings in cities and small towns, sometimes two a day. If that's typical he will have covered most of the country in 2018. It certainly gets reported in the local press [there is so little local news these days] and attended by large enthusiastic audiences.

The problem, as always with Labour, is there's nothing to do other than elections so all that enthusiasm drifts away.

And yes I know there's plenty to do, but being reluctant to speak ill of the dead I won't bore you with my accounts of ward meetings.

Our ward (admittedly an unusually large one) carries out a fair bit of activity. Supporting RMT picket lines last week, street stalls at least once a month, door knocking weekly (sometimes on particular issues, sometimes to find out what issues people think are important). Plus all the stuff people do as individuals (but still recognisably Labour Party individuals)

 

[mojo pixy]

Nobody has claimed that the dissatisfaction was never expressed via reactionary outlets.

True, but then trying to pass it off as a progressive move is just a lie. It's reactionary in every sense of the word. It's a my enemy's enemy is my friend scenario if ever there was one.

 

[belboid]

Desperation alert!

May has had to go for the IRA supporter jibe, she must be a bit scared about some of her support peeling away.

 

[danny la rouge]

True, but then trying to pass it off as a progressive move is just a lie. It's reactionary in every sense of the word. It's a my enemy's enemy is my friend scenario if ever there was one.

What are we actually discussing here? The discussion broadened out too far from the specifics and I’ve lost the place.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Margaret Beckett as having a pop at May for being 'discourteous.'

I suppose it would live things up if Theresa did call him a fucking anti-semite.

Are we confusing Margarets Beckett and Hodge perchance?

 

[belboid]

Are we confusing Margarets Beckett and Hodge perchance?

No, no, absolutely not.



Okay, maybe...

 

[treelover]

'Rebel' Soubry fully and categorically back on side.

 

[killer b]

There has never been any doubt Soubry would support the government in a confidence motion: she takes every opportunity to tell people she will. She's always been onside.

 

[treelover]

We know that, but the remaniacs, the rallies, etc, maybe they thought something else.

 

[butchersapron]

We know that, but the remaniacs, the rallies, etc, maybe they thought something else.

Well that's non-labour types with their own self-limiting monomania. There is not going to be labour right-split with scum like her. Never has been. That's just been the guardian and those types trying to scare the horses.

 

[killer b]

We know that, but the remaniacs, the rallies, etc, maybe they thought something else.

It's really easy to check what Soubry says about how she'd vote in a VONC, she tells a journalist on a national broadcaster at least once a week. If the remainiac types are claiming she's support one, then they're lying.

 

[belboid]

It's really easy to check what Soubry says about how she'd vote in a VONC, she tells a journalist on a national broadcaster at least once a week. If the remainiac types are claiming she's support one, then they're lying.

uhh, they're not actually. She (and NIck Boles) have both said they'd resign and vote against the government of no deal became policy.

 

[killer b]

uhh, they're not actually. She (and NIck Boles) have both said they'd resign and vote against the government of no deal became policy.

She said she'd vote against the government in a VONC? I missed that.

 

[killer b]

when?

 

[belboid]

December - Mr Boles said: “If at any point between now and 29 March the government were to announce that ‘no deal’ Brexit had become its policy, I would immediately resign the Conservative whip and vote in any way necessary to stop it from happening.” Ms Soubry replied to his remark, posted on Twitter, and said: “You and many other sensible responsible One Nation Tories Well said.”

 

[chilango]

when?

She strongly hinted at that on the BBC this lunchtime.

At least that was my interpretation of what she said, and I've no horse in this race.

 

[mojo pixy]

What are we actually discussing here? The discussion broadened out too far from the specifics and I’ve lost the place.

Ah, true. There are at least four brexit-rated threads and I keep forgetting which one I'm reading.

No big deal, we pretty much all know each other's views by now.

 

[redsquirrel]

Woodcock abstaining on VoNC the cunt.

 

[hash tag]

From BBC:
Former Labour MP John Woodcock, who now sits as an independent, criticises the government but says Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are "simply not fit to hold high office".

"With a heavy heart," he explains, "I cannot support the no confidence motion."

Many Labour MPs are wrestling with their consciences, he suggests, "wanting desperately a Labour government, but knowing that the leader of their party is as unfit to lead the country as he was when they voted against him in the no confidence motion those years ago."

 

[agricola]

From BBC:
Former Labour MP John Woodcock, who now sits as an independent, criticises the government but says Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are "simply not fit to hold high office".

"With a heavy heart," he explains, "I cannot support the no confidence motion."

Many Labour MPs are wrestling with their consciences, he suggests, "wanting desperately a Labour government, but knowing that the leader of their party is as unfit to lead the country as he was when they voted against him in the no confidence motion those years ago."

Poor John, forever doomed to miss the woods on account of a large group of trees. He (and they) could have got rid of Corbyn as Leader of the Opposition in 2016, and they could prevent him ever being PM if he did win an election, but unfortunately the Independent member for Barrow and Furness is not very good at politics.

 

[hash tag]

Fuck me, 19 votes, just 19