Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Dogsauce]

Ah, but that’s still a clever strategy, because if they embolden May then the Tory party remains on fire.

 

[Ted Striker]

They don't have the numbers. So it makes them look weak, her look stronger, & adds another day of pointless procedural braying to wind everybody up even further.

Yep, could do real damage to project Corbyn imo (sadly).

If he can't get traction in the house now, when can he? Do labour people, beyond the nutters, want to wait this parliament out with him as such an ineffective parliamentary leader? I think a pivot to Lammy will be on the cards.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Guardian: "even though he did this thing that we've been insisting he needs to do and won't work, he still won't do the other thing that really really won't work"

Jeremy Corbyn offers little hope for people's vote campaigners

 

[killer b]

I think a pivot to Lammy will be on the cards.

lol

 

[killer b]

This happens every time some cunt puts in a vaguely spirited performance in parliament doesn't it? Suddenly they're the next leader. until everyone remembers they're fucking shit.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep, could do real damage to project Corbyn imo (sadly).

If he can't get traction in the house now, when can he? Do labour people, beyond the nutters, want to wait this parliament out with him as such an ineffective parliamentary leader? I think a pivot to Lammy will be on the cards.

Traction in the house if neither here nor there - it's traction outside, in winnable and defensible seats. The house is irrelevant here.

 

[kenny g]

This happens every time some cunt puts in a vaguely spirited performance in parliament doesn't it? Suddenly they're the next leader. until everyone remembers they're fucking shit.

Would be entertaining having him face humphries in the morning after his performance on celebrity mastermind though.

 

[Ted Striker]

This happens every time some cunt puts in a vaguely spirited performance in parliament doesn't it? Suddenly they're the next leader. until everyone remembers they're fucking shit.

I developed a soft spot for him at a recent do with Carol Cadwalldr and Peter Jukes on Brexit/Mueller etc - he's very personable in the flesh IMO.

I did mean to have a look at why he was out of favour (on here) aside from the usual sneers at all politicians, but CBA in the end...

 

[killer b]

They're all personable in the flesh, more or less. Being personable is their job.

 

[butchersapron]

Looking like a human is their trade. Their skin.

 

[mojo pixy]

As I understand it, this VoNC is a must. The govt has just suffered a massive loss in a parliamentary vote, it would actually be weird if the opposition didn't table one. Doesn't mean they expect to win, it's just what you do at this stage in proceedings. They may keep doing it, and it's certainly their prerogative (yeah, word of the day), every time a vote is lost over the next few weeks. Eventually one may even pass, who knows?

Panto season. Rah

 

[Wilf]

As I understand it, this VoNC is a must. The govt has just suffered a massive loss in a parliamentary vote, it would actually be weird if the opposition didn't table one. Doesn't mean they expect to win, it's just what you do at this stage in proceedings. They may keep doing it, and it's certainly their prerogative (yeah, word of the day), every time a vote is lost over the next few weeks. Eventually one may even pass, who knows?

Panto season. Rah

I think that's right and not doing it would inevitably pose questions about Corbyn bottling it or similar. But Labour's bigger passivity over the last 2 years has not been taking any of this out on the road, whether it be big meetings like Corbyn had when elected or, better, in communities. That's not to suggest there was an easy sell for Labour, the Party was split and it's voters are split. But they should have been doing that regardless of Brexit. The whole Brexit vote was about people feeling abandoned/ignored by politicians, capital, globalisation. What better way to combat that than to engage? I'm not part of Lab or the Corbyn thing, but that should have been their logic. Instead, they've wanted to play it as a game of parliamentary ambushes, media briefings and the rest. Again showing that Labour - even Corbyn Labour - are part of the problem.

 

[butchersapron]

I think that's all correct and down here a result of the new members not having a fucking clue how to relate to working class areas. What could have been done? Forums and public meetings in every area of the city. As a first step.Why brexit is shit or great, whatever the meeting, make it public. Labour lost the art of public meeting years ago - in this age of new public politics it better get it sorted.

 

[ska invita]

I think that's right and not doing it would inevitably pose questions about Corbyn bottling it or similar. But Labour's bigger passivity over the last 2 years has not been taking any of this out on the road, whether it be big meetings like Corbyn had when elected or, better, in communities. That's not to suggest there was an easy sell for Labour, the Party was split and it's voters are split. But they should have been doing that regardless of Brexit. The whole Brexit vote was about people feeling abandoned/ignored by politicians, capital, globalisation. What better way to combat that than to engage? I'm not part of Lab or the Corbyn thing, but that should have been their logic. Instead, they've wanted to play it as a game of parliamentary ambushes, media briefings and the rest. Again showing that Labour - even Corbyn Labour - are part of the problem.

was talking to a labour party person last week who said corbyn and McD have been up and down the country recently, it just doesn't get reported
not sure how to double check that

 

[butchersapron]

was talking to a labour party person last week who said corbyn and McD have been up and down the country recently, it just doesn't get reported

blimey someone interested in that image being true.

 

[Combustible]

Ken Clarke and a small smattering of others might.

Ken Clarke voted for the deal so it would be an odd move

 

[chilango]

My couple of Labour friends have largely dropped out of Party activity since the election, drifting towards the centre and being consumed by people's vote shit.

In a seat that Labour won spectacularly with one of the biggest swings in the election we've had one, just one, bland and vague Party newsletter through the door.

They've not bothered to build a thing on the surge of interest and support they got round here. Nothing.

Meanwhile, as they run the Council, they've carried on cutting and gentrifying and the like.

Fucking idiots.

 

[chilango]

My couple of Labour friends have largely dropped out of Party activity since the election, drifting towards the centre and being consumed by people's vote shit.

In a seat that Labour win specularly with one of the biggest swings in the election we've had one, just one, bland and vague Party newsletter through the door.

They've not bothered to build a thing on the surge of interest and support they got round here. Nothing.

Meanwhile, as they run the Council, they've carried on cutting and gentrifying and the like.

Fucking idiots.

All of which, combined with a probable fixation on Brexit and a "Peoples Vote" were an election to happen imminently, makes me suspect that Labour will slip back from it's last showing.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Labour in my area have continued to canvass nearly every weekend since the GE largely because they gained the seat from the torys and know it's vulnerable. They have concentrated on the most vulnerable wards. Perhaps your ward is less vulnerable?

 

[butchersapron]

Canvassing. Fuck me this really is a new age of politics

 

[chilango]

Labour in my area have continued to canvass nearly every weekend since the GE largely because they gained the seat from the torys and know it's vulnerable. They have concentrated on the most vulnerable wards. Perhaps your ward is less vulnerable?

Less vulnerable?

It's a Green held ward that they've been desperate to retake for years.

 

[19force8]

was talking to a labour party person last week who said corbyn and McD have been up and down the country recently, it just doesn't get reported
not sure how to double check that

I know from my area of the midlands Corbyn has done at least half a dozen weekend meetings in cities and small towns, sometimes two a day. If that's typical he will have covered most of the country in 2018. It certainly gets reported in the local press [there is so little local news these days] and attended by large enthusiastic audiences.

The problem, as always with Labour, is there's nothing to do other than elections so all that enthusiasm drifts away.

And yes I know there's plenty to do, but being reluctant to speak ill of the dead I won't bore you with my accounts of ward meetings.

 

[butchersapron]

**wrong thread**

 

[Wilf]

I know from my area of the midlands Corbyn has done at least half a dozen weekend meetings in cities and small towns, sometimes two a day. If that's typical he will have covered most of the country in 2018. It certainly gets reported in the local press [there is so little local news these days] and attended by large enthusiastic audiences.

The problem, as always with Labour, is there's nothing to do other than elections so all that enthusiasm drifts away.

And yes I know there's plenty to do, but being reluctant to speak ill of the dead I won't bore you with my accounts of ward meetings.

Really (on the first underlined bit)? I'm interested, what kind of numbers and have these been brexit only meetings?

But the second underlined bit is really the problem (as you imply). It's not even that the work isn't being done, it's more that Labour has a mindset that can't conceive of doing other things, organising other things, being something else.

 

[chilango]

, it's more that Labour has a mindset that can't conceive of doing other things, organising other things, being something else.

Oh it can and does. It's not like they've been sat on their fat arses waiting for next election.

They've been perfectly able to shut down Children's Centres, sell off public swimming pools to property developers and waste millions on vanity projects...

 

[butchersapron]

Close libraries, oaps homes, lighting

 

[19force8]

Really (on the first underlined bit)? I'm interested, what kind of numbers and have these been brexit only meetings?

But the second underlined bit is really the problem (as you imply). It's not even that the work isn't being done, it's more that Labour has a mindset that can't conceive of doing other things, organising other things, being something else.

In the hundreds, 200+ in my town which happens to be Tory held at every level. No, they weren't Brexit meetings they were about what a Labour govt would mean for working people. Brexit was covered, but not as "the most important issue in the UK today."

As to activity, even the local TUSC group with barely ten members does more in the town than my ward with over 70 members.

They're not horrible people, some are school governors, charity volunteers, or active in unions and local campaigns, but all as individuals - none of this is linked to the party, let alone discussed or decided on in meetings.

 

[Wilf]

In the hundreds, 200+ in my town which happens to be Tory held at every level. No, they weren't Brexit meetings they were about what a Labour govt would mean for working people. Brexit was covered, but not as "the most important issue in the UK today."

As to activity, even the local TUSC group with barely ten members does more in the town than my ward with over 70 members.

They're not horrible people, some are school governors, charity volunteers, or active in unions and local campaigns, but all as individuals - none of this is linked to the party, let alone discussed or decided on in meetings.

Cheers.

 

[Southlondon]

I know from my area of the midlands Corbyn has done at least half a dozen weekend meetings in cities and small towns, sometimes two a day. If that's typical he will have covered most of the country in 2018. It certainly gets reported in the local press [there is so little local news these days] and attended by large enthusiastic audiences.

The problem, as always with Labour, is there's nothing to do other than elections so all that enthusiasm drifts away.

And yes I know there's plenty to do, but being reluctant to speak ill of the dead I won't bore you with my accounts of ward meetings.

Many Labour Party members are involved in other groups and campaigns away from the party, and have interests and involvement in other stuff eg Palestinian campaigns, local friends groups, union activities, anti racist work, community groups etc. It’s not just about knocking on doors to canvass voters. I was on the last anti tommy Robinson march, and there were lots of other labour members there as well

 

[Dogsauce]

The whole Brexit vote was about people feeling abandoned/ignored by politicians, capital, globalisation.

It wasn’t though was it? Some of it, maybe, but not wholly.

It feels to me like wishful thinking to see this as a revolutionary forces at work. Those I know that voted out were anything but ignored or marginalised - the friend’s dad with a buy-to-let empire, my uncle with his generous public sector pension etc. Plenty more like that, age more an indicator than class. Most Tory voters went for out, labour voted in. A mixture of stuff driving the vote, some marginalisation but also a lot of reactionary shit too, those who don’t want their taxes going on the undeserving poor or Spanish motorways. Corbyn is never going to appeal to their interests.