Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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he claims to have just wanted to get a conversations going, apparently. the defence of racists throughout the ages.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I dunno about proscribing them from Labour, is 'bad epistemology' an offence under party rules?
but:
- A relatively indiscriminate approach to sourcing their beliefs.
- The idea that there's a coordinated single intention behind everything, so you can't simultaneously e.g. recognise that this is obviously an attack, that multiple actors may be participating in these attacks for entirely separate reasons, that some of it was probably accidental / incompetence and also that there actually is some anti-Semitism that makes those attacks credible and that needs sorting out pronto.
bemused
Well-Known Member
It's up there with 'it's only a word'
Corax
Luke 5:16
Er... yeah. That's pretty indefensible.
What "conversation" did he want to get going exactly? One about if Shoah really happened?
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
They have no place because it is irrational and socialism should be rational and at least most parts scientific.
Because their arguments are irrational and focus on one ethnic group they are also racist and that has no place.
Yes there are mischievous right wing people playing this up to the max and little fair hearing to be had, but they need to do a bit of light mental lifting and see that does not mean there is no issue. If they can’t grapple with the first bit of complexity and run off to irrationality, then again, they have no place.
bimble
floofy
I might have been looking in the wrong places before but seems to me like things are changing in a really positive way following the mural story. As if this time lots of people can see what the problem is and how it comes about via conspiracism.
Meanwhile though two thousand members of a 'we support Corbyn' facebook page have signed an open letter to JC that says the protest on Monday was the 'onslaught' of 'a very powerful special interest group' using its 'immense strength and history and influence' .. etc.
Thousands of Jeremy Corbyn supporters endorse letter saying Jewish-organised antisemitism protest was the work of 'very powerful special interest group'
Meanwhile though two thousand members of a 'we support Corbyn' facebook page have signed an open letter to JC that says the protest on Monday was the 'onslaught' of 'a very powerful special interest group' using its 'immense strength and history and influence' .. etc.
Thousands of Jeremy Corbyn supporters endorse letter saying Jewish-organised antisemitism protest was the work of 'very powerful special interest group'
bemused
Well-Known Member
I remember years ago watching something about women in the BNP. During one of the segments, the interviewer asked 'do you believe in the holocaust?' the answer was 'yes, but I question the numbers'
Whenever I see anyone using holocaust denial to start a 'debate' I think of this BNP supporter.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Was that why he picketed a Holocaust Museum - yes, that's right a Holocaust Museum - in Washington last year? Wonder what conversation he wanted to get started then?
I remember when the left used to smash 'pickets' like that off the streets.
bemused
Well-Known Member
But they haven't booted her, she's still on the NEC and therefore bizarrely still on the committee she resigned as chair of.
I don't think someone who pickets the holocaust museum or posts holocaust denial memes on facebook to start conversations could meaningfully be thought of as 'on the left' tbf.
yeah, they should have booted her from the NEC. they will do by the end of the day, why not get it over with first thing?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
McDonnell's line was abysmal, it'll last about as long as the one Corbyn's office initally put about about the mural.
'She defended a vile anti semite but she can stay on the NEC. This surely proves that Labour is takng a hard line on AS'. Fucks sake.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I might have been looking in the wrong places before but seems to me like things are changing in a really positive way following the mural story. As if this time lots of people can see what the problem is and how it comes about via conspiracism.
Meanwhile though two thousand members of a 'we support Corbyn' facebook page have signed an open letter to JC that says the protest on Monday was the 'onslaught' of 'a very powerful special interest group' using its 'immense strength and history and influence' .. etc.
Thousands of Jeremy Corbyn supporters endorse letter saying Jewish-organised antisemitism protest was the work of 'very powerful special interest group'
I’ve written my own.
Dear Jeremy
Having argued for some time that anti-Semites were a fringe and peripheral problem in the Labour Party imagine my disappointment to find out that today everyone in the party appears to be one.
Did I miss a memo?
Yours sincerely
Moose (Mr)
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Shawcroft and presumably others in the JC diaspora clearly do see him as a comrade.
He was recently selected by the CLP as a candidate in Peterborough. Can you imagine being 'on the left' and voting for scum like this as a sign of your progressive credentials.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
p.s Should we all be anti-semites now father?
bemused
Well-Known Member
I'd not be surprised if it drags on over the weekend.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Livingstone is toast now. He should have been a long time ago. I believe a sort of informal green light was taken for granted by the milieu producing this shit (at that point just on the fringes of the party but with very good and long-standing connections to a number of long standing labour MPs and people) after the failure to deal adequately with his nazi camp guard remark in 2005 (something many people now seen as sensible and non-racist defended very vigorously at the time) and that this milieu is now within the labour party - and not all of it on the fringes - and organically linked to the campaign for Corbyn to win the leadership election then to defend that victory - not due to any serious enduring commitment to socialist principles. Again, it's that milieu that is the problem here. The light that needs to be shined on them - at the very least - will dazzle and maybe hurt wider labour eyes, but it needs doing and doing well before the next general election. Who knows, might even win some electoral brownie points.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Sush, it's just more fake anti-semitism.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
They key quote for those still thinking this just a Blairite plot to do Corbyn in:
"Alan Bull’s offence is not having ever said he is a holocaust denier but that he distributed a Holocaust denial article for discussion. Since when are topics such as Holocaust denial ‘forbidden’ by the ‘Labour anti-Semitism’ thought police?" Straight from the NF playbook.
bimble
floofy
Tony Greenstein, who was at labour hq (with jackie walker) waving Brighton & Hove Momentum's banner demonstating against the 'witch hunt' on Monday.
(Btw if anyone interested 25,000 israelis demonstrated last week against the deportations mentioned by him in there).
Plumdaff
joy in people
Let's hope he gets expelled from Momentum too.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
That was a couple of weeks ago, before the latest AS allegations fwiw, not Monday.Tony Greenstein, who was at labour hq (with jackie walker) waving Brighton & Hove Momentum's banner demonstating against the 'witch hunt' on Monday.
View attachment 131321
(Btw if anyone interested 25,000 israelis demonstrated last week against the deportations mentioned by him in there).
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
This is so depressing. I am arguing on another forum on this topic and pretty much 100% of my fellow Corbyn supporters are lost in it's all a Tory plot / but Corbyn is perfect and would never be anti-semitic / what about the Jews that say it's not anti-semitic? / I can't see anything wrong with the mural anyway territory.
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