Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
Anti-semitism should also be fought because it's the right thing to do, not just because of its electoral implications.
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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Of course! I think my other posts on this thread have been explicit about that.
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
I never doubted it (though I should have said that).
The discussions I've had elsewhere on this have been a bit depressing, must say. A week on and most of the people moved to talk about it in my networks are still seeing this purely as a tory / labour right attack, and quite a few are still denying the poster is even antisemitic.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The external ombudsman could concievably be a good idea, depending on who it comprises of, and if its remit was expanded so that it would deal with allegations of lower-level misconduct (of the kind that came out a few months back) it would be a vast improvement on the party investigating itself.
The "engage with the Jewish community via its main representative groups" one is nonsense however; I'd imagine very little engagement would take place.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Perhaps, but the letter doesn't say "answers to", it says mutually agreed and reporting to both the LP and the BOD / JLC.
If (though its a big if) they could come up with someone acceptable to both who was effective, honest, independent and dealt with investigations fairly and in a reasonable time-frame, then it would be much better than what happens now - surely if any idea has been confirmed as true these past thirty years its that institutions cannot be trusted to investigate themselves, or more exactly senior members of themselves, when they are accused of wrongdoing. As an idea it is one that has merit.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The whole idea of being in any way answerable to BOD or JLC is a bit laughable. Why are they the official bodies? Neither is exactly democratic. Imagine if Corbyn had proposed anything similar for the Muslim Council for Britain, or the Muslim Association of Britain. How do you stop someone using 'zionist' as an term of abuse? They're quite clear about saying 'zionism=nazism' is out (and fair enough), but would saying 'zionism=apartheid' be acceptable? And the IHRA definition of anti-semitism is shit.
Plumdaff
joy in people
Completely agree with above criticisms. The Labour Party cannot be answerable to the BoD, and there are some problems with the IHRC definition. Also, I think it's entirely acceptable to think some of the people at the march attended for quite cynical reasons. Twats being twats on Skwarkbox or whatever and Twitter doesn't make that not true.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Would The Canary count as the sensible left? Or as part of the labour - or more specifically, Corbyn - supporting milieu producing circulating and developing the sort of political environment in which anti-semitism can pass as just general left wing opinions? How about suggesting all this furore is an Israeli false flag?
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elbows
Well-Known Member
Reference to them reprinting the following article from January 2017 today, or something else?
REMINDER: Israel put up a £1,000,000 bounty for Labour insiders to undermine Corbyn | The Canary
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
'Excellent suggestion. Killing two birds with one stone. I'll instruct Tom to pass it on to Jeremy'
Yours
Max Mosley
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Oops, forgot to put the link in - ta.
Plumdaff
joy in people
No, The Canary and Skwarkbox (sp?) clearly aren't "sensible" (by which I assume you mean reality-based) left. They clearly contribute to a milieu where stupidity is tolerated if it's our stupidity. Suggesting this is a false flag is obviously conspiraloon shit.
You can think that yes, there's a problem with antisemitism and Corbyn was a fucking idiot for making those FB comments; but that it may have been raised again at this time by his opponents inside and outside the party to maximise damage before the local elections, after which there may be another coup. And you can think this and believe that of course dealing with antisemitism is more important than Labour Party local election results. Or you can think that this is a false flag funding by an Israeli conspiracy and deny any issues with antisemitism. The latter is a real problem, this stuff needs to be challenged on social media and IRL and ideally no-one in the party should be thinking that nonsense, although I'm under no illusions that some do.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think labour/corbyn types moving the focus to this milieu rather than Corbyn is a move that would be very sensible for them and their declared aims. It's probably the only grounds on which they could effectively counter-attack - given that shouting it's all a plot hasn't done much of a job. Risky though.
Plumdaff
joy in people
Isn't it mostly that milieu that have been shouting it's all a plot? Most of the 'reality based' Labour/Corbyn types have been saying there's a problem/some people are capitalizing on this for their own aims which is different.That said, it's this milieu that likely needs targeting On that basis I think an all out counter attack is foolhardy. Accept fault, put house in order, then start pointing out the abject and obvious hypocrisy that has been on display from some inside and outside the party, for example, some of the Tory election leaflets that are circulating online. It's fucking stupid to be going after, say, David Lammy.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Corbyn announced today he's speaking with Formby to beef up how they deal with antisemitism within the party. Of course, it's the NEC and surrounding structures that deal with it already, and we've seen the NEC quick to suspend or kick out some people and not others over the past few years, and quite why it's dragged its feet over so many antisemitism cases I don't know. Now McNichol has gone and with this all going on now I hope there can be a renewed effort to refresh the whole thing - Corbyn working with them to draw up a more robust plan, and them not sitting on their arses taking their sweet time.
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
I suspect the false flag suggestions are themselves false flags.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
cantsin
Well-Known Member
Just flicked thru it. and can't see any reference to 'this furore ... (as) ..an Israeli false flag?'
and whatever your thoughts on the Canary, I think that whole episode, the eye watering facts of which haven't been contested by any parties cited asfaik, does need keeping in mind - unless you're trying to argue that the rank anti semitism of the conspira- trash, some inside the LP, but mainly online adherents (that needs addressing), somehow diminishes the bad faith / intentions / actions of the Israeli embassy operatives, LFOI, Tory stooges and their activities as per the Canary article ( and elsewhere ) ?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That article was clearly re-published today in order to suggest that there is nothing to see here in the ongoing row except for the Israeli state targeting Corbyn as per their rather shit reading of the contents of the al-jaz investigation. That this is what and who is really pulling the strings behind accusations and debate around the existence of anti-semitism in left coalition behind Corbyn.
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
So farewell then, Christine Shawcroft.
Here's the post in question (I think, happy to be corrected, but it's the one going around)
![FRbmTsB[1].jpg](https://www.urban75.net/forums/data/attachments/131/131285-45fdfc93c6198279c9710eeae7c7eff0.jpg "FRbmTsB[1].jpg")
That's quite the site he's reposting.
This stuff needs to be dealt with right hard, right now. It's probably not spread outwith the political bubbles yet, but y'know...
Here's the post in question (I think, happy to be corrected, but it's the one going around)
That's quite the site he's reposting.
This stuff needs to be dealt with right hard, right now. It's probably not spread outwith the political bubbles yet, but y'know...
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Christ. I have become embroiled in a bloody Facebook argument, where I have to defend the notion that believers in the existence of a New World Order have no place in a socialist organisation. A discussion where there are actual NWOs who are saying the anti Semitic mural isn’t anti Semitic. And I’m the one who’s bad for not saying ‘boo hiss, it’s all about attacking corbyn’ Actual conspiraloonery is being ignored.
But, how can you actually define ‘conspiraloon’ sufficiently to effectively proscribe such shitheads?
But, how can you actually define ‘conspiraloon’ sufficiently to effectively proscribe such shitheads?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Paul Stotts review , from last year, of The Left's Jewish Problem is worth a read imo
The Left's Jewish Problem: A Review
The Left's Jewish Problem: A Review
bemused
Well-Known Member
She's still on the NEC.
John McDonnell is running around TV and radio studios this morning claiming that because JC asked her to step down from a sub-committee it proves they are taking a hard line with the problem; at the same time dancing around any question asking if she should quit the NEC. It's a shambles.
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not a trot
Well-Known Member
Government in a shambles on just about everything and then we get all this crap from Corbyns party.
Oh well, we're off on hols for a few days so fuck 'em.
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