Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Ramsey. Getting on a bit but still on the team.
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
- Thread starter hash tag
- Start date
Ramsey. Getting on a bit but still on the team.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
No, not least of all because the Standard could simply have asked them and they would probably have said something similar. It's not an Area 51 type secret that Momentum would like to change the Labour Party.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
He made a massive error in not properly inspecting the image before commenting and giving it publicity. He has apologised and I don’t see an on-going theme of supporting antisematism
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
That's the problem right there. Every time Corbyn's fans say they don't see it's like wriggling in quicksand - you are just getting in deeper.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Nonsense. There wasn’t a history of antisemetic issues with Corbyn. He stupidly commented on a bit of graffiti he was viewing on a phone screen. He has rightly apologised. Those that want to push this issue further before allowing for the party to take action to improve awareness of antisemitism are led by Tories, the unaccountable board of deputies, the daily mail etc etc. It’s all part of the establishment fight back against the progress Corbyn had made in both the party and amongst the electorate.
There are serious racists out there and the attack on Corbyn does not serve to challenge them, it serves only to hamper the efforts to get an anti austerity labour government in power which would improve the prospects for working class people in Britain Be they black, Asian, white or Jewish. Pinning the label of racism onto Corbyn of all politicians is totally ridiculous
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
It's no good refusing to address the allegation that Macdonald has a farm. You're just burying your head in the sand!
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Scratch the surface and realpolitik always bubbles forth.
Edit: Reminds me of that scene from Yes Prime Minister about pressing the button, except substituted for criticising the leadership.
"When do you stand for your principles, when they abandon nuclear disarmament? When they accept remaining within Nato? When they quietly resume a stance of 'managed migration'? When the leader tries to wave away problems of bigotry in the ranks?
"Well, when do you stand for them?"
Edit: Reminds me of that scene from Yes Prime Minister about pressing the button, except substituted for criticising the leadership.
"When do you stand for your principles, when they abandon nuclear disarmament? When they accept remaining within Nato? When they quietly resume a stance of 'managed migration'? When the leader tries to wave away problems of bigotry in the ranks?
"Well, when do you stand for them?"
Last edited:
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Internal Democracy is improving and will continue to under Corbyn. As for being socialist, no at present it is merely moving towards a more traditional social democratic position, however the desire amongst many members including I suggest Corbyn and McDONNELL, and a few others amongst the parliamentary party is to continue the push towards a more socialist agenda.
Revolutionary socialist it most certainly isn’t, but for the first time in decades the word Socialism is back in use and that is a good start
andysays
Love and solidarity
If you can't see an on-going theme of not challenging AS (or at least enough of one that it can and will continue to be portrayed as such), and think if it hadn't been for this particular incident everything would be OK, then you clearly haven't grasped the seriousness of the issue.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Yes, too right the Tories and the Mail are up to something. How galling is it that they can lecture the Labour Party about racism (of all ironies) and it can't land a punch back without making it worse. That's a leadership failure, built upon not dealing with an issue, exacerbated by the leader's achilles heel.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
I don’t think there would be many out of our half a million members who don’t grasp the seriousness. This is the biggest threat to us securing a labour government next time round that we’ve faced. He is already leading on measures to tackle the issue within the party and I wonder what else you suggest he do? What should happen in your eyes so we can learn, improve and move on to continue to challenge this horendous Tory Government
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
I know my dyslexia is hilarious. Always worth ridiculing someone for poor spelling and grammar. That’s why I prefer to engage with people face to face in the real world rather than on line. I also need new glasses so struggle to view the screen easily. Just as well I’m not on face book eh ?
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
When you quoted my post you also quoted Pickman's quip but didn't refer to it - so it was just a joke on that. I was unaware of your dyslexia and there was no attempt to ridicule. I thought as this board goes we were having one of its more civil exchanges.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
This thread is going round in circles but its simple:
1. We know that the charge of AS has been 'weaponised' to attack Corbyn and is being used by oppenents to attack his leadership. I do not think anyone has suggested otherwise on here.
2. HOWEVER, because this is the case it does not automatically follow that there are not issues that need to be addressed about the failure to address AS or those amongst the fringe around JC who are AS.
Just because point 1 is correct it does not automatically follow that point 2 can't also be correct. It's not one or the other - it's both. It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time etc etc.
Cobyn's supporters would be in stronger position starting from this point rather than engaging in furious 'whataboutery' around point 1 and using it to deny point 2.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Earlier a few posters in the Labour party all sadi that they hadnt come across an issue in their CLPs. Does anyone actually know of any cases of anti semitism or can name members/groups who are? I remember that nutter from Momentum who was suspended and apparantly there are around 70 cases being or still to be investigated.
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
Unfortunately it just keeps rumbling on. A couple of years ago it was him having shared platforms, whilst supporting the Palestinians, with people who had said some unsavoury things. Then the perceived reluctance to ban Ken for life after he said some utterly stupid things...(I liked Ken, thought he was a good mayor, but he needs a permaban, even if to avoid distraction). Guilt by association, like the mural, but it won’t go away. He won’t be unequivocal in his denunciations of anti-semitism on the first attempt, even if the second try is reasonable and nuanced. Then he’s trying to be too clever with Russia. Even if one is a little nostalgic for the CCCP, Putin is not a fellow traveller in the socialist cause...or Casto..or Chavez..as a contrarian backbencher this would be fine. Unfortunately, cumulatively, it means he’s unlikely to lead a government.
I don't know how anyone can make these kinds of calls. Have you not seen the last 3 years in politics?
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
I’ll flag this post and we can revisit it in a coupe of years
Fingers
From Tuscany SE22
yeah a member of our CLP has been suspended for antisemitism yesterday... and she is Jewish
A few months ago I went through one of the election threads and liked all the posts where people predicted a massive majority for the tories or poo-pooed the idea of a hung parliament.I’ll flag this post and we can revisit it in a coupe of years
elbows
Well-Known Member
Depends which election. It might be easy to see this stuff as not ending up electorally significant in a general election, but when it comes to things like energising various part of the tory base to come out and vote at the local elections, perhaps this stuff is a more significant part of the mix. The constant stream of stuff may also be seen as an attempt to gradually affect the momentum (no pun intended) of Corbyn and his competitors, rather than outright tarnish him.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i am not sure why you have quoted me here
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
ah, you've been in the like mines too.A few months ago I went through one of the election threads and liked all the posts where people predicted a massive majority for the tories or poo-pooed the idea of a hung parliament.
I think it'll have an effect in areas with a very high Jewish population - although tbh I think that damage was already done two years ago. I don't think it will have much purchase elsewhere though, and the activists I've spoken to are just cracking on.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and I should have been clearer why I started going on about the constant stream of stuff. Any one thing that is focussed on may have limited interest and have traction in some wards far more than others. But the cumulative effect is probably of more interest, especially since the tories often struggle to come up with policies that can be used to wage a positive election campaign.
Since there are issues of anti-semitism in Labour and elsewhere, it is a shame that these revelations and focus on this is being done within a narrow Corbyn-related context. Few in the media seem very interested in exploring the exact nature and historical reasons for particular flavours of anti-semitism popping up within Labour, and although the conspiracy-theory, paranoid strain of politics gets a bit more attention and analysis these days, its still rarely looked at properly by the mainstream media. Plus this century there has been a less than subtle change to the way the Israel-Palestine situation is reported, including very much the BBC. Chuck in the way that attention is limited due to the amount of global events unfolding, and we get places like Gaza getting only very fleeting moments in the spotlight, quickly followed by falling off the radar entirely. None of this is good when trying to keep important stuff from getting tarred by some of the dodgy stuff that inevitably lurks nearby when pushed to the fringes.
Can we salvage anything useful from the situation? What 20th century baggage are we actually going to manage to rid ourselves of this century? Its becoming clear that plenty of shit is being recycled and will live on in renewed form, perhaps Corbyn-related successes and failures are an opportunity to reflect on some of this in a manner that doesnt seem too remote from mainstream political narratives.
Similar threads
