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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

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not a nazi uniform in sight.
Yeah absolutely fair enough, the only thing is that was a long time ago and whilst still inexcusable apologists could still make the claim that 'that was then this is now...' and perhaps derive some credibility for their position whereas the nazi fancy dress thing has occurred recently and on more than one occasion.
 
Yeah absolutely fair enough, the only thing is that was a long time ago and whilst still inexcusable apologists could still make the claim that 'that was then this is now...' and perhaps derive some credibility for their position whereas the nazi fancy dress thing has occurred recently and on more than one occasion.
yeh it was only filmed once.
 
Jewish east end Andy, whitechapel and brick lane was the jewish enclave of London for a century
Yeah, I know that. Are you saying it would be OK or not so bad if it was somewhere that didn't have a history of Jewish community?

I'm not saying you are, but I 'm still puzzled what you ARE saying
 
I don't think more rules are necessary tbh - the red lines I was talking of are conceptual: I think the leadership has to be clearer about what the problem is, and more vigorous in it's tackling of it. I don't necessarily think this requires more rules (although I'm no expert on what the rules are so maybe they could do with a tweak).
oh right. Well, Corbyn has dug himself a hole so getting out of it with a shred of dignity is going to require some clarity.
 
it could be a pivotal moment for Corbyn to fall on his sword and take the baggage with him to get some closure on this . But who next ? Thornberry is favourite atm. bloody hell.
 
I hesitate to say this because it no doubt paints me in a bad light, but I had no idea that the pyramid and eye thing was supposed to represent Jews. I've only seen it on dollar bills. I never read any of the conspiracy nonsense threads and I avoid it in real life too. The people in those murals don't look Jewish to me either. I wouldn't have known any of it was an antisemitic trope.

Not that Corbyn gets off the hook if he is as naive as me -- I'm not a politician representing a community. But I did want to note that none of this is as obvious as it might seem if you have to deal with this shit on a regular basis.
 
I thought the eye and pyramid thing was originally an Illuminati symbol and had then been appropriated by anti Semites, loons and antisemitic loons to refer to the supposed worldwide Jewish banker conspiracy. Maybe there are elements that I've missed out of that summary.
 
not in the context of 'what Joy Division were named after, post IC' ?
Lol yes, I know this version.

If I have a point, it's that either I am spectacularly naive or there is the potential for a lot of other people also to have the symbolism involved in this mural completely whoosh over their head.

Of course, I now know better for next time. And I hope Corbyn and others around him have a similar capacity to learn, if he genuinely was as clueless as me.
 
The eye in the triangle is an ancient symbol of God/Divine vision (I think there is one in an ancient stained glass window in Lincoln Cathedral or York Minster) was appropriated by the Freemasons, (a branch is called York Rite) later esoteric versions of which linked it to the "Eye of Horus" and Egypt. Right wing conspiracists demonised the various Freemasons - anti Catholic in some countries - from the 18th century on. The US founders included quite a few masons who were also Deists or Unitarians - religious positions quite close to liberal Judaism, I think it is suggested that the commissioner/designer of the dollar bill was referring to the promise of the American Revolution as a new model for the world. The latin phrase is often translated as "New Order Of The Ages" and links to both the promise of the French and American Revolutions and the "General Reformation" of the earlier Rosicrucians, whose alchemical writings fed into early aristocratic freemasonry in England and France. Freemasons are now seen as either establishment or "mafia of the mediocre " but the roots of extreme right fear of them was in the role of Freemasons in promoting anti-clericalism, liberalism, republicanism and science as opposed to the monarchical and theocratic regimes of the 18th century. By the late 19th early 20th century there was already a vast paranoid literature linking all those hated by monarchists and religious reactionaries - liberals, masons, jews, socialists, anarchists, republicans, feminists, atheists - all seen as "satanic".
 
New World Order (conspiracy theory) - Wikipedia

all utter shite obvs

don't bother clicking unless you want to be mired in this awful stuff

Actually that article is quite useful for understanding the mainstream ways this term was used in the US by politicians during earlier parts of the 20th century. As opposed to George H W Bushs reboot of the term when giving a post-Soviet union speech, and the ways that 'filled the gap' left by the loss of cold-war paranoia, and gained new traction via some cultural & media phenomenon that were occurring (MTV, 24 hour news cycles, use of sound samples by Ministry, some vacuous 90s tv conspiratorial cultural trends eg X-Files, newsgoups and then finally later the web).
 
The other thing is surely Corbyn was commenting after knowing the mural was being removed as controversial wasn't he? So you'd think he'd takr a look first just to check if maybe the "censors" had a point, whatever you might think at first blush, on tiny screen, blurry FB post etc ad nauseam..
 
This is a good quick read wiith some useful links :


Antisemitism as a “blindspot” for the Left

John-Paul Pagano wrote a piece for the Forward in late January about “How Anti-Semitism’s True Origin Makes It Invisible to the Left.” “Antisemitism differs from most forms of racism in that it purports to ‘punch up’ against a secret society of oppressors,” explained Pagano, “which has the side effect of making it easy to disguise as a politics of emancipation. If Jews have all this power, then punching up at Jews is a form of ‘speaking truth to power,’ a form of speech of which the Left is currently enamored. Yet it is precisely because antisemitism pretends to strike at power that the Left cannot see it, and is in many ways doomed to erase or even reproduce its central tropes
 
it could be a pivotal moment for Corbyn to fall on his sword and take the baggage with him to get some closure on this . But who next ? Thornberry is favourite atm. bloody hell.

Good choice. It’s hard to see how she might alienate anyone.
 
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