Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[chilango]

So who sits on the front bench?

SNP (see other thread!)

 

[nuffsaid]

SNP (see other thread!)

Ha - yeah - Nicola! Come on Down! Then she'll get independence though and it's an empty bench again.

I'm detecting a new meme with a picture of an empty parliamentary opposition bench.

 

[Lord Camomile]

If members re-elect Corbyn, which it looks like they will, it's hard to see how the MPs could 'take' the party name. They'd still be rebelling against both leader and members, whatever support they have none of it is from the bulk of the Labor structure.

Whether or not they would get it, I think they'd feel entitled to it. Rightly or wrongly they think they are Labour, as demonstrated by this whole sorry escapade. "The members are wrong, we are right*"




*inadvertent double meaning, but I'll take it.

 

[YouSir]

Whether or not they would get it, I think they'd feel entitled to it. Rightly or wrongly they think they are Labour, as demonstrated by this whole sorry escapade. "The members are wrong, we are right*"

*inadvertent double meaning, but I'll take it.

They can feel as entitled as they like, without the subs, mailing lists or members it'll just be them sitting in a corner saying 'we did win'. Best they could do, I think, would be to launch a legal battle which even if they win they lose.

 

[teuchter]

Would a split in the party be a bad thing?

 

[wtfftw]

Someone said something on an email list i'm on that i found very perceptive - the coup leaders and participants, due to their own lack of any principles beyond immediate self-interest, have not grasped that Corbyn is acting out of genuine political/democratic principle in not budging, in refusing to fold. And, in that refusal or inability to get what's happening and why, they have fatally overplayed their hand. Expecting someone to act as they would has doomed them.

Someone said pretty much that further back in this thread.

 

[brogdale]

Cameron to Corbyn at PMQs...

"I would say, for heaven’s sake man, go."

Very revealing.
That really should inspire people 'on the left' of the party to support his position.

 

[JimW]

Surely the unions would have.a big say in who gets to be called official Labour and they've backed Corbyn

 

[danny la rouge]

SNP (see other thread!)

Stay tuned:

 

[kebabking]

If there is a split who gets to be called The Labour Party? the PLP rebels with their constituency mandates or the Corbynites with his memebership mandate? Can the PLP just appoint someone and put a jumper on the front bench and tell Jezza he doesn't sit there anymore?

two different issues, in Parliament its up to the Speaker - his view will be if 172 MP's say they are the Labour Party, and 40 MP's say they are the Labour Party, then he'll decide that 172 beats 40.

outside parliament the answer is probably the other way around - Corbyn has control of the party machinery, the money, the branches, the membership etc.. so he gets to keep the Labour name and trademakes. that won't stop the 40 MP 'Real Labour' group sitting at the far end at the back with the cobwebs...

 

[happie chappie]

Surely the unions would have.a big say in who gets to be called official Labour and they've backed Corbyn

I think it would come done to who is legally entitled to claim the name, not the unions. In fact I'd be very surprised if lawyers aren't considering this very question as we speak.

 

[emanymton]

For the record I don't think the Labour Party will split, nor will it disappear as some seem to be suggesting. I don't think either side will give up the fight for the party. And while the fight will do massive damage, it will persevere simply because there is no where else for most of the voters or members to go.

 

[nuffsaid]

For the record I don't think the Labour Party will split, nor will it disappear as some seem to be suggesting. I don't think either side will give up the fight for the party. And while the fight will do massive damage, it will persevere simply because there is no where else for most of the voters or members to go.

So what do you think will happen if there's no split and no backing down? That's unresolved, which can't continue. Either Jezza goes and the PLP continue, or Jezza stays and wins a leadership campaign and the PLP grump off to the back benches, or Jezza wins and the PLP splits.

 

[butchersapron]

There is no basis for negotiation here now. No space. It's all or nothing.

 

[emanymton]

So what do you think will happen if there's no split and no backing down? That's unresolved, which can't continue. Either Jezza goes and the PLP continue, or Jezza stays and wins a leadership campaign and the PLP grump off to the back benches, or Jezza wins and the PLP splits.

I think he'll stand down eventually, and some form of middle ground, party unity candidate will be elected leader. My money was on Burnham as I think he has been positioning for this since the last leadership election. But the whole mayor if Manchester thing makes me doubt it will be him.

I've just noticed something and am now slightly disappointed that we will never get 'Burn ham' as the leader of the opposition facing off against Cameron.

 

[Rob Ray]

I found this interesting:

Sources close to Watson – who as Corbyn’s deputy, would become caretaker leader if he chose to resign – said: “Everyone needs to calm down and try and prevent a civil war in the Labour party. We should not rush into a leadership contest that would be irreversible.”

To me that sounds very much like:

Watson, whose careful planning hasn't prevented strong suspicions about his direct role in the coup, said: "So having started this civil war in the Parliamentary Party, I thought Corbyn would fall on his sword. Now we're looking at a leadership contest that my side would lose and I'm bricking it."

 

[emanymton]

There is no basis for negotiation here now. No space. It's all or nothing.

You think there will be a split then? They're not going to dissolve into nothing that's for sure.

 

[DotCommunist]

remember tom watsons speech accepting the deputy position? god he banged on for fucking ages. At least Khans speech had a little cheekiness about it, faux though it was. Watson just droned on at full bore for what seemed like hours. If god really hates me, and its so rainy I think she might, watson will become leader of the labour party

altho st Jez of Corb looks to be hanging on so maybe she likes me better than I thought

 

[Rob Ray]

You think there will be a split then? They're not going to dissolve into nothing that's for sure.

If they split most of them will disappear - they're reliant on loyal Labour brand voters. They're between a rock and a hard place right now. Mind you so's Corbyn.

 

[butchersapron]

You think there will be a split then? They're not going to dissolve into nothing that's for sure.

No, i think one side will win - there can't be a middle ground outcome. Now, that may well lead to a split (onbly if corbyn wins though), but i suspect the PLP backers are going to discover just how shallow their standing is very soon and will bottle it. They are only where they are due to the labour party imprimatur. The same lack of principles beyond immediate self-interest i mentioned above sort of requires that.

 

[emanymton]

If they split most of them will disappear - they're reliant on loyal Labour brand voters. They're between a rock and a hard place right now. Mind you so's Corbyn.

Which is why I doubt there will be a split. Both sides know that however 'loses' the split is not going to get very far.

 

[andysays]

Cameron to Corbyn at PMQs...

Very revealing.
That really should inspire people 'on the left' of the party to support his position.

Prime Minister David Cameron has told Jeremy Corbyn to resign as Labour leader, claiming it is not in the national interest for him to continue. During Prime Minister's Questions, the PM criticised Mr Corbyn's efforts during the EU referendum, telling him: "For heaven's sake man, go."

Whereas Cameron, who actually called, then lost, then refused to take responsibility for seeing through the result of the fucking referendum, now plans to stick around as a dead-duck PM for the next few months, ensuring that nothing substantive can happen, which clearly is in the national interest...

 

[Supine]

I like Corbyn but for me there is one fundamental reason why he needs to go. He campaigned for remain and was on the losing side. As per Cameron resigning so that a Brexiter can lead JC needs to do the same.

Whichever side wins it needs to be done quickly - Labour couldn't ruffle Camerons feathers at PMQ today and that needs to change.

 

[teqniq]

I think Cameron's calling for Corbyn to go is in one part classic deflection stuff to divert attention from the vermin's own woes, also a signal to the disaffected Labour Mp's that they have the vermin's tacit support and frankly just to stir more shit.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I like Corbyn but for me there is one fundamental reason why he needs to go. He campaigned for remain and was on the losing side. As per Cameron resigning so that a Brexiter can lead JC needs to do the same.

Labour campaigned for Remain, didn't they? Plus, they're in opposition...

 

[redsquirrel]

Watson, whose careful planning hasn't prevented strong suspicions about his direct role in the coup, said: "So having started this civil war in the Parliamentary Party, I thought Corbyn would fall on his sword. Now we're looking at a leadership contest that my side would lose and I'm bricking it."

Yeah, some rowing back there. I also wonder how much unity there actual is in the 172, the Progress filth seem to be letting the soft left do most of the running at the moment (probably because even they aren't deluded enough to think that they've got anything but a tiny amount of support in the party at large) but how united are the two sections?

I like Corbyn but for me there is one fundamental reason why he needs to go. He campaigned for remain and was on the losing side. As per Cameron resigning so that a Brexiter can lead JC needs to do the same.

1) There are a number of Remain backers running for the Tory leadership (including the joint favourite), (2) Which of the 12 or so Labour MPs that backed Leave do you think should replace Corbyn?

 

[ViolentPanda]

SIR Eric Pickles? How the fuck did that happen?

I had heard that, as the incumbent leader, he automatically stands in a leadership election

Jabba's knighthood was, some cynics have contended, the pay-off for moving aside at DCLG to let someone more "thrusting" (for which read "young, and not a professional Yorkshireman") into his ministerial slot.

 

[Supine]

Labour campaigned for Remain, didn't they?

If he was really an exiter then he should have lead the party in that direction. The landscape would certainly be different if he had.

 

[Rob Ray]

I think Cameron's calling for Corbyn to go is in one part classic deflection stuff to divert attention from the vermin's own woes, also a signal to the disaffected Labour Mp's that they have the vermin's tacit support and frankly just to stir more shit.

It's all part of the Great Game to his type, they hanker for worthy opponents who can play to the rules, on their level.

A family member of mine used to follow the hunt before they got too old, and told me about a time when they found themselves sat opposite some titled type in the pub afterwards. They were moaning because the sabs hadn't been been up to snuff recently, made the sport less fun.

 

[kebabking]

i don't think there are any Labour Brexiters that 75% of the PLP or membership would serve, so its a moot point aas far as i'm concerned...