Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[alfajobrob]

No one cares but his rating is starting to go up in my book...no idea why..but interesting for me at least.

 

[Wilf]

The idiot ordinary people need to have their votes taken away from them so their betters like you can order the world in their interest.

You just make yourself look foolish posting something like that. Bernie didn't mean that and, most of all, you know he didn't. Why on earth would you pretend he did?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I think ferrel is hearing the voices again.

It's more a matter of capital having thoroughly captured the institutions and processes in between the voters and the policies enacted.

So that no matter what you thought you voted for, what you actually get is always more looting.

 

[The39thStep]

Lol Tories take a council seat from Labour in Middlesborough

 

[DownwardDog]

Lol Tories take a council seat from Labour in Middlesborough

Coulby Newham though. That's not really the skag addled rape alleys that are brought to mind when one hears the word 'Middlesborough'.

 

[The39thStep]

Coulby Newham though. That's not really the skag addled rape alleys that are brought to mind when one hears the word 'Middlesborough'.

Have the Tories won it before?

 

[cantsin]

Lol Tories take a council seat from Labour in Middlesborough

You cld at least try + disguise yr evident enjoyment of this

 

[treelover]

Coulby Newham though. That's not really the skag addled rape alleys that are brought to mind when one hears the word 'Middlesborough'.

God , you are a pig.

 

[The39thStep]

You cld at least try + disguise yr evident enjoyment of this

It's hard whether I should laugh or cry tbh. On the face of its a disaster unless someone can put it in some context.

 

[Wilf]

The area is a mix of big modern estates, private and social housing. Labour should have a natural majority there and they won the seat in 2007 and 2011, though not with massive majorities in the latter. It's basically Lab Vs Cons/mixture of independents and residents. 2011 was the Residents candidates running Labour close-ish (200+ majorities - it's one of those 3 councillors elected type seats). The idea that this is all about Corbyn can only be partly true, as Labour won a by-election last year in the same seat.

However this result really isn't good for Labour - con 38, lab 35, residents 24. In other words it wasn't simply a case of all the former residents/independent votes going to the tories. Actually, would have been easier if I'd posted the links.

... so: history of the seat can be found here:
Election Results | Middlesbrough Council

And this by election result here:
Jeremy Corbyn Blamed As Middlesbrough By-Election Sees Tories Take Labour Seat | The Huffington Post

Oh, and Blenkinsop is an outright wanker.

 

[Wilf]

guardian running the story prominently (of course - more a sign of the mutual speed dial they have with Blenkinsop):
Loss of Middlesbrough council seat again casts doubt on Corbyn’s leadership
It's obviously a very poor result and exactly the kind of result it should be impossible for a plausible opposition to get at this point in a parliament. But it's not exactly an earth shattering result - Labour used to get comfortable majorities in Coulby. I'm splitting hairs and anyway my take on it is that Labour is mega fucked at the next election and maybe the one after that, but this result shouldn't be made into some kind of game changer as it's being presented.

 

[The39thStep]

I agree not a game changer but continued evidence of an opposition who just aren't able to engage.

 

[Beetlebum]

I've put a couple of quid on Corbyn going in the second quarter of 2017. He needs to win big in May to survive.

If we take the Mayoral election in Brum it's curtains IMHO.

 

[ferrelhadley]

I think ferrel is hearing the voices again.

What kind of shitcunt assumes they are such a genius that it is a sign of mental illness to disagree with them.

It's more a matter of capital having thoroughly

A good example of why virtually no one takes the left seriously anymore. You basically are like a child that blames everything you fuck up on a bigger boy doing it and running away.
The dozy old duffering wandering out the day after the Brexit vote and demanding Article 50 now? All the fault of "capitals capture of the media" etc etc.
The thick old clown wandering into parliament on the day Article 50 was triggered and banging on and on about school places? All the fault of capital.

A complete and total capitulation on any effort to engage with the UK people and instead wallowing in a never ending circle jerks of self pity and self congratulation.

 

[butchersapron]

Terribly dishonest prof. You owe bernie an apology.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I'm talking about 'hearing voices' because you aren't as far as I can tell, engaging with anything I actually said, but appear to be referring to something else entirely.

What I said was that it doesn't matter how any of those people voted, they're still going to get more privatisation, worse pay and conditions, less security etc, due to structural factors that voting (for whatever or whoever), has negligible impact on.

 

[redsquirrel]

Terribly dishonest prof. You owe bernie an apology.

Yeah, an utterly ridiculous smear. Clearly wasn't any implication of mental illness.

 

[agricola]

Sion Simon visits the moral high ground, in an article in today's Guardian.

 

[Beetlebum]

Sion Simon visits the moral high ground, in an article in today's Guardian.

Yes a very interesting contest this one. Labour will almost certainly win Manchester, and we are in a titanic struggle with the Greens and kippers for third in Liverpool but this is the one that could go either way.

What'll be interesting to compare will be the Tory vs Labour turnout. Even though it's now a nearly decade since BoJo took London I still suspect a minority of our more traditional voters see all devolved government as a Labour thing and simply stay at home.

Betfair Exchange has Andy Street as a firm but not overwhelming favourite at 1.63 with Sion on 2.18

 

[Wilf]

A complete and total capitulation on any effort to engage with the UK people and instead wallowing in a never ending circle jerks of self pity and self congratulation.

Not sure why I'm attempting a sensible answer to this, given that your post is just shit flinging, but here goes:

Pretty much all of conventional politics is trying to appropriate the interests and aspirations of particular social groups at particular moments, to the point where there's sufficient party members to do the work and voters to win elections. A big part of that is making assumptions, offering idealised accounts of groups and what is in their interest. It's a form of 'engagement', but a dishonest and manipulative one. Liberalism on both sides of the Atlantic is fucked at the moment because it embodies a set of professionalised middle class values and is then appalled that the working class doesn't share those policies and values (brexit of course). Yes and the left too have 'lost touch', but not in the way you mean it. It also has less and less points of contacts with the working class, so is essentially parading a vision of capitalism before neo-liberalism, but isn't really 'engaging', isn't part of the working class. But when you talk about 'engaging with the UK people', you really just mean playing the Blairite game of 'engaging with' whilst taking real engagement further away from the working class. The sincere conjuring trick of the PR campaign, politics as marketing strategy. I'm not going to defend the Corbyn thing, I think it embodies exactly the wrong form of politics - it's an 80s left tribute act, it doesn't actually engage, but the guardian/liberal/Blairite use of the word engagement to attack Corbyn is to refer to a process they would never undertake in a million years - something they couldn't actually do.

Edit: short version - I bet I've used the word engage 20 times or more on this thread, but engage is the ultimate weasel word.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I think it's still important to vote and to try to elect some representatives who actually oppose privatisation, worse pay and conditions and looting-induced insecurity and are willing to try to repair the damage neo-liberalism has done to the social contract.

It's just that those structural factors I mentioned make it very difficult to do that, and make it very difficult for them to successfully represent those interests in the unlikely event that they can be elected.

Pretending those structural factors don't exist is an option obviously, but it's a bit like pretending the science of climate change doesn't say what it actually says and yelling at people for not putting faith in corn ethanol or one of Bono's tree planting scams.

I think a constructive approach has to start from recognising the reality of the situation.

It's shit, but that's where we are.

 

[cupid_stunt]

As much as I like Corbyn, and indeed voted for him, it's become clear he's a dead man walking.

 

[Beetlebum]

As much as I like Corbyn, and indeed voted for him, it's become clear he's a dead man walking.

The only thing Labour have got going for them is the fact that there can't be another election for 3 years, unless TM can find a way to engineer one.

If the opinion polls are right ( and they are unlikely to be *that* far out ) we would win an election tomorrow very tidily indeed.

But a lot can happen in two years.

 

[brogdale]

The only thing Labour have got going for them is the fact that there can't be another election for 3 years, unless TM can find a way to engineer one.

If the opinion polls are right ( and they are unlikely to be *that* far out ) we would win an election tomorrow very tidily indeed.

But a lot can happen in two years.

"...we..."
If you insist on posting here, try to refrain from this meaningless trope.

 

[treelover]

He means the Tories, i wonder how many others of the CJA/RTS generation are now on the Right, etc.

 

[Beetlebum]

He means the Tories, i wonder how many others of the CJA/RTS generation are now on the Right, etc.

I'd be interested to know. There was no way that I was ever going to vote Tory in 1997 but some of the things they did made it feel like they were declaring war on my generation.

Over the top in hindsight but I didn't vote Tory until 2010 when most of that generation of Tory MPs had retired.

 

[Beetlebum]

"...we..."
If you insist on posting here, try to refrain from this meaningless trope.

I've just gone out and brought a QRTY keyboard

 

[teqniq]

So how does this work then?

On the one hand:

Theresa May’s Conservatives are 21 points ahead of Labour in new poll

and then the other:

Jeremy Corbyn’s policy blitz supported by majority of British public, poll says

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I think it works like this.

Directly opposing the policies would just make more people notice that they agreed with them, so the propaganda shitstorm focuses instead on Corbyn's failings as a media personality

 

[Beetlebum]

So how does this work then?

On the one hand:

Theresa May’s Conservatives are 21 points ahead of Labour in new poll

and then the other:

Jeremy Corbyn’s policy blitz supported by majority of British public, poll says

Okay, spaking as a Tory votr ..looking at th article you'v linked to....for a start th most popular of thos polics, ..fuck this...

The most popular of those policies-raising the minimum wage to £10 a hour- has cross party voter support. The Tories have already made some substantial progress in the direction of £10 an hour... of course it's not fast enough.

I think it was a mistake to cut the top rate of tax to 45 percent. 50 percent is fine, going much higher might take us above the peak of the laffer curve.

There have already been free school meals introduced for primary year 1 kids I think? Anyone know?

None of those policies strike me as that radical tbh