Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[emanymton]

I suspect the English will never again vote for Labour and will willingly drive themselves into a new Victorian era of landed gentry being served by people in maids and butler outfits who only get addressed by their surname. Fortunately for me, I won't be living there but I recognise that I am the one at fault in England. Since the population had only voted for a couple of decades of Labour in government, living under the boot of Tory Toffs must be what they want. Knowing that, I suppose I should just leave them to it. Walk away.

It wasn't that long ago (OK it probably was a while ago) that I heard people saying thst the Tories would never be in power again. They were an aging and dwindling bread who would shrink to a rump.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Yes you did:

(My emphasis).
If you think that cuts are inevitable following a private sector crash then you think neo-liberalism is inevitable, which means you think social democracy is not achievable.

That caption which I intentionally included and referenced in my post? Yes, I did look at that. You've conveniently cut off the first sentence there which clearly shows that the labour and tory governments of the 50s/60s and early 70s increased spending by more (3.4%) than the Blair/Brown governments (3.2%).
A reminder of the "FACT" you stated:

As the other graphs you so helpfully provide show clearly that spending went up under Tory Govts in the 50s/60s/70s and down under Labour govts in the 70s and as your graph makes clear also in the first year or two of blair/brown.
So do you accept then that your "fact" was actually nothing of the sort?

No of course I don’t accept that, the graphs I posted clearly show that Labour governments spend more than tory ones.

Here are two more focussing on education and healthcare. (I assume you know the dates of Labour administrations).

Charts of Past Spending - UkPublicSpending.co.uk

Are you really trying to argue that a future Labour government would spend less on essential services than this tory one?

so not a fact then.

You’re clutching at straws. Jezza isn’t going to win a GE.

One more thing: I may not agree with your approach, but I have you down as a decent person who cares about society and I respect you for that, so what’s with your ‘like’ of pickman’s infantile personal abuse?

 

[Andrew Hertford]

They are relevant to and were raised in response to a comment by you about non-democratic ways of changing governments.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you.

But you haven’t explained it, you don’t know how to.

The only viable way of saving public services is by kicking out the tories at a GE.

A fair society can't by definition be undemocratic.

‘Coups and revolutions’ have nothing to do with it.

 

[brogdale]

But you haven’t explained it, you don’t know how to.

The only viable way of saving public services is by kicking out the tories at a GE.

A fair society can't by definition be undemocratic.

‘Coups and revolutions’ have nothing to do with it.

That post appears heavy with assumption. Not least that parliamentary representation equates to democracy.

 

[Pickman's model]

But you haven’t explained it, you don’t know how to.

The only viable way of saving public services is by kicking out the tories at a GE.

A fair society can't by definition be undemocratic.

‘Coups and revolutions’ have nothing to do with it.

You're all over the fucking shop here you stupid cunt. I wouldn't have mentioned coups in the first place if you hadn't fucking asked how govts could be changed undemocratically. I only mentioned it in that context and never as a realistic option atm so will you stop repeating it, dishonestly making out I've said anything in favour of coups? And you can't vote a fairer society into being, it's something which needs to be worked on for years and must be bottom-up, not top-down. A fair society cannot by definition be undemocratic? A fair society cannot by definition be democratic, if by democratic you mean simply electing people now and again.

 

[Pickman's model]

That post appears heavy with assumption. Not least that parliamentary representation equates to democracy.

He's an auld cunt coming back days or a week or more after posts and then posting up some auld blathery shite which shows he hasn't got to grips with what's been said. Worst long-term poster on the boards.

 

[Pickman's model]

One more thing: I may not agree with your approach, but I have you down as a decent person who cares about society and I respect you for that, so what’s with your ‘like’ of pickman’s infantile personal abuse?

There would be no personal abuse if you managed to get to grips with what other people post. But you seem incapable of it. You seem incapable of any sort of critical thought. Your thought seems to run on rails rather than be capable of taking different routes, your mantra that a Labour government must be elected to make things fairer flies in the face of experience between 1997 and 2010. Labour governments are explicitly pro-business governments. And if you're pro-business, someone else will come second. Part of labour's role is to play the good cop to the tories' bad cop - over things like tuition fees. Perhaps you should revisit the Blair and brown govts and think about them somewhat before posting again.

 

[Libertad]

what sort of talk is this? Never lie down or walk away.

Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. (((Zapata)))

 

[Pickman's model]

Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. (((Zapata)))

better to reign in hell than serve in heaven

 

[DotCommunist]

live free or die trying #NoFear

 

[YouSir]

'Oops there goes another rubber tree plant'

Couldn't think of one that fitted.

 

[hash tag]

At last we hear Corbyn and Labour coming out with a pledge Labour would fund free school meals for all primary school children by charging VAT on private school fees

Shame the lib dems announced plans to introduce this a few years ago

 

[butchersapron]

At last we hear Corbyn and Labour coming out with a pledge Labour would fund free school meals for all primary school children by charging VAT on private school fees

Shame the lib dems announced plans to introduce this a few years ago

A lib-dem promise. Marvelous. The same lib-dems who previously opposed universal free school meals as 'food for the richest kids". Does the lib-dem plan intend to newly tax private schools to fund the increase? Or, as with all their wonderful actions whilst in power, is it to come out of some other social spending?

 

[gosub]

At last we hear Corbyn and Labour coming out with a pledge Labour would fund free school meals for all primary school children by charging VAT on private school fees

Shame the lib dems announced plans to introduce this a few years ago

Ms Rayner said that the private school sector could afford the extra cost - and that many other businesses faced VAT charges.
She said that in a "true meritocracy" the emphasis should be on supporting the 93% of pupils in state schools schools.
"Why should the state school system subsidise the private sector?" she said.

Can someone have a stab at explaining that last bit to me?

 

[redsquirrel]

A lib-dem promise. Marvelous. The same lib-dems who previously opposed universal free school meals as 'food for the richest kids". Does the lib-dem plan intend to newly tax private schools to fund the increase? Or, as with all their wonderful actions whilst in power, is it to come out of some other social spending?

Christ I must have missed/forgotten that. And these are the slime labelled as progressive.

 

[killer b]

.

 

[killer b]

Ms Rayner said that the private school sector could afford the extra cost - and that many other businesses faced VAT charges.
She said that in a "true meritocracy" the emphasis should be on supporting the 93% of pupils in state schools schools.
"Why should the state school system subsidise the private sector?" she said.

Can someone have a stab at explaining that last bit to me?

Tax breaks to private schools is effectively a subsidy, that could be better used subsidising the state sector. It's not that difficult is It?

 

[gosub]

Tax breaks to private schools is effectively a subsidy, that could be better used subsidising the state sector. It's not that difficult is It?

Normalising the idea of VAT on education then. Glad I'll have finished OU before Labour get back into power.
The way schools are funded, its a lot easier to argue UK parents of private schools subsidise state education.

 

[butchersapron]

Normalising the idea of VAT on profit producing businesses.

 

[gosub]

Normalising the idea of VAT on profit producing businesses.

Like universities

 

[butchersapron]

These profit making parts of public state-funded universities - are there many of them? Are they, in fact, profit producing businesses in the same way as private schools?

 

[hash tag]

State schools V private/public schools is not just about funding though. Education should be equal for all in the way it is delivered, by who it is delivered and for the pupils. If the public schools take all the brightest/priveledged pupils and the best teachers, the state schools will become poorer in quality and outlook. The education children get at state schools will be inferior (in many ways) to that received at private schools.

 

[gosub]

State schools V private/public schools is not just about funding though. Education should be equal for all in the way it is delivered, by who it is delivered and for the pupils. If the public schools take all the brightest/priveledged pupils and the best teachers, the state schools will become poorer in quality and outlook. The education children get at state schools will be inferior (in many ways) to that received at private schools.

I get the ideological argument, (I don't fully agree but I get it), more the justifications are dragging them towards a really shitty pandora's box

 

[DotCommunist]

State schools V private/public schools is not just about funding though. Education should be equal for all in the way it is delivered, by who it is delivered and for the pupils. If the public schools take all the brightest/priveledged pupils and the best teachers, the state schools will become poorer in quality and outlook. The education children get at state schools will be inferior (in many ways) to that received at private schools.

the level of educational excellence* is not why people send their kids private though. We all know why this happens.

*and lets not forget it doesn't bear out as excellence in the HE department because once the hothousing is gone...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Ms Rayner said that the private school sector could afford the extra cost - and that many other businesses faced VAT charges.
She said that in a "true meritocracy" the emphasis should be on supporting the 93% of pupils in state schools schools.
"Why should the state school system subsidise the private sector?" she said.

Can someone have a stab at explaining that last bit to me?

Note Labour - even under the social democrat Corbyn - can no longer demand equality, never mind suggest legislation to bring it about. They cannot even, as Blairites once did, demand the more nebulous 'equality of opportunity'. The demand now is 'meritocracy'.

Understand this and you'll understand how a proposal to feed children is so controversial.

 

[hash tag]

FWIW I have just been speaking to a friend/colleague, who was born into a notable socialist family and a staunch Corbyn supporter, Even he doesn't think Labour are electable at the moment

 

[rioted]

These profit making parts of public state-funded universities - are there many of them? Are they, in fact, profit producing businesses in the same way as private schools?

The UK does not permit for-profit schools, but there are a number of for-profit institutions in higher education.

 

[emanymton]

FWIW I have just been speaking to a friend/colleague, who was born into a notable socialist family and a staunch Corbyn supporter, Even he doesn't think Labour are electable at the moment

That's not really the question though is it. The question is why? Frankly I don't think Corbyn is the main reason.

 

[Pickman's model]

FWIW I have just been speaking to a friend/colleague, who was born into a notable socialist family and a staunch Corbyn supporter, Even he doesn't think Labour are electable at the moment

too many blairites, you're quite right.

 

[cantsin]

At last we hear Corbyn and Labour coming out with a pledge Labour would fund free school meals for all primary school children by charging VAT on private school fees

Shame the lib dems announced plans to introduce this a few years ago

funded via VAT on Private school fees ? Bollocks.