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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

... and, more succinctly, it will always be hard for Labour to be an active player on the side of the working class after a couple of decades of 3rd way neo-liberalism from the party, right through to the real cuts being made by its councillors. Hard to 'engage' with the very people you are screwing over.
 
How the Guardian Changed Tack on Corbyn, Despite Its Readers | Novara Media

Apologies if this has already been posted, but this article by authour Alex Nunns is definitly worth a read.

Who cares though? The model here is Trump. The hostility Corbyn faced is nothing compared to facing down the Republicans, nor is the public ignominy.

Corbyn doesn't begin to be able to connect with sufficient numbers. He doesn't have the skills, he doesn't have the vision, he is utterly without personal authority and he isn't even clear if he is statesman or outsider.

No amount of the Guardian pretending to like him would have changed that.
 
what?
ftr I oppose cuts (& capitalism) and have never been a member of a political party. Not once not ever.

why the personal attack, why not discuss sensibly?
My apologies I thought you were a member of Labour. But the essential point still stands, as steph pointed out Labour are at this moment attacking working class communities. It's all very well Corbyn and McDonnell saying how terrible things are but they are part of a party that is cutting the services people need.

Wilf is quite right about the re-heated luke warm social-democratic slop, but at the moment Labour aren't even that.
 
what could a theoretical labour council do to oppose the cuts they are supposed to deliver? I know you can't set an illegal budget or Eric Pickles comes to get you but what about a mass resignation? this is purely hypothetical of course cos none would but if they did? What happens after that action
 
Corbyn doesn't begin to be able to connect with sufficient numbers. He doesn't have the skills, he doesn't have the vision, he is utterly without personal authority and he isn't even clear if he is statesman or outsider.

No amount of the Guardian pretending to like him would have changed that.

Well his successor, by all accounts, will NOT be from the left. Progress will see to that, or so they say.

It's going to be another shadow cabinet of of "moderate" MPs, just after that moderate DNC that rejected Sanders for Clintonwas brought about the President Donald.

Corbyn's Labour critics organise locally to prevent leftist successor

"things can only get Blairite"
 
what could a theoretical labour council do to oppose the cuts they are supposed to deliver? I know you can't set an illegal budget or Eric Pickles comes to get you but what about a mass resignation? this is purely hypothetical of course cos none would but if they did? What happens after that action
Well the NEC unanimously passed a motion insisting that setting of illegal budgets should not happen - so even the 'left' of the party don't support the type of action that Popular took. They've argued that they should be the ones implementing the cuts.
 
My apologies I thought you were a member of Labour. But the essential point still stands, as steph pointed out Labour are at this moment attacking working class communities. It's all very well Corbyn and McDonnell saying how terrible things are but they are part of a party that is cutting the services people need.

Wilf is quite right about the re-heated luke warm social-democratic slop, but at the moment Labour aren't even that.

I live in Lambeth, I get how Labour attacks communities. But I also have to say I recognise that the attacks from the tories are always worse. That doesn't excuse Labour in any way, it merely ranks them marginally lower on the scale of evil.

As i said, I largely agree with what Steph said and I explained my reservations about one specific bit. FWIW I largely agree with Wilf as well, particularly his point about the missed opportunity to build towards a social movement. But the article under discussion doesn't consider an inclusive, class oriented social movement, it's focussed on the views of the 'socially conservative' working class and gives voice to specific racists. Yet it's been lauded on here as being somehow important.

The people quoted may be working class, and they certainly have economic and social grievances, but they're not alone in that, there's plenty of w/c economic grievances in London and other cities that doesn't manifest in racism. What does a social movement that represents the views of the people interviewed look like? Do I want to be part of it? Do you? Does anyone reading this?
 
Well his successor, by all accounts, will NOT be from the left. Progress will see to that, or so they say.

It's going to be another shadow cabinet of of "moderate" MPs, just after that moderate DNC that rejected Sanders for Clintonwas brought about the President Donald.

Corbyn's Labour critics organise locally to prevent leftist successor

"things can only get Blairite"

This strongly suggests the left would do well to find a candidate who can unify. After all this is what the leader will need to do between working class and other Labour voters if the Party is to avoid relegation to Div 1.
 
This strongly suggests the left would do well to find a candidate who can unify. After all this is what the leader will need to do between working class and other Labour voters if the Party is to avoid relegation to Div 1.

This very much, and in terms of Labour providing an effective opposition they need to be shoutier (for want of a better word) on issues like the crisis in the NHS, the failure of privatisation and the clueless mess the Tories are making of Brexit.

They are missing too many open goals of which there are many at the moment.

The whole unpopular 'regeneration' in the face of opposition from existing residents needs to be dealt with as it is a growing issue.
 
This strongly suggests the left would do well to find a candidate who can unify. After all this is what the leader will need to do between working class and other Labour voters if the Party is to avoid relegation to Div 1.

Unify the members? Unify the whole party? Or is that unify the PLP? If it is that latter, which in your case it probably is not but unfortunately does turn out to be what is meant by "unify in rags like the Graund, then the word "unify" has come to mean "do what Progress want or we leak/resign/write articles in the Tory Press until you do".

There is an odd parralel: the Tories are underfunding the NHS until its subsequent poor performance is used as a justification for privatisation. Meanwhile the "moderates" undermine the Labour Party until its subsequent poor performance is used as a justification for turning it into DNC style faux-alternative to neo-liberal policies.

Let's not forget: Labour MP Jon Cruddas as part of his Independent Inquiry into why Labour had lost the May general election tried to tell us that Anti-Austerity lost us the 2015 election (which it turned out was a fib). This was the "moderates" line pre-Corbyn. Pro-Austerity. Indivisible from Osbourne's. That is what will be on offer as "opposition" if "unity" means the "moderate" PLP get their way (i.e. no opposition at all).

Anti-austerity unpopular with voters, finds inquiry into Labour's election loss
 
If you think that no leader can tame Progress then the only conclusion is that a split or purge is required. Neither play well, esp short term, for a party hoping for 12m votes.

However, the right leader, charismatic and inclined to the left could neutralise them and ensure their cooperation with the membership. This great asset the membership has is being squandered on a dead horse.
 
I think I've said this before, a while back. For all of Corbyn's weaknesses, I don't think its merely a case of finding someone younger/ stronger/ representative diversity-wise/ media savvy, who shares his politics and views. The problems in the Labour party, especially PLP just run deeper than that. A lot of Labour PLP is just diametrically opposed to a lot of re-nationalisation (utilities, even railways which is popular among voters), of the belief to build proper publicly owned housing, services. Let alone the really substantial challenges of globalisation, technological advance, etc. They say what some of their supporters want to hear, say the right things on social media when criticising Tories and cuts, but in reality, they're not offering any radical shift. They're great at the whole identity politics-based 'calling out' stuff and nods to social liberalism, but even the right has mastered that one in recent years, and its not the type of structural change that will significantly move the party to any proper left/socialist/pro-working class ground again. Corbyn's occasional drifting into any kind of once 'old left' territory is soon reigned in and 'clarified' by the Labour spin and PR machine. That won't change with a different leader in the same political vein.

I still think a split is the only way forward if any kind of proper left part of party is to rise from its ashes. I don't hold any hope though. I convinced myself for years to stick with them - 'well, at least it keeps the Tories out' in the hope of anything. I didn't particularly think Corbyn was going to really change much (I'd already left the party for dead some years ago now), but what I've seen despite his popularity with the CLP (although I do think the honeymoon period is over) is the way the most vocal and powerful part of the PLP machine has reacted to his leadership and vague attempts to swing 'leftward'. So, no, replace Corbyn with a newer/diverse model with the same politics - same problems will emerge imo.
 
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So you think the membership needs to stop squandering their greatest asset on the "dead horse" that is Corbyn and vote for another.

As regards horses that are not dead: Do you have any names in mind?
 
Next Monday, Momentum Sheffield is holding a discussion on 'Corbynising the Council' that will focus on the ways the people of Sheffield can influence the local Council's response to its ongoing funding crisis.

The session will be both practical and educational, covering:
- The Council's current financial situation.
- The political role of Councillors.
- How Councillors have resisted cuts in the past.
- The ideology behind changes to Council funding.
- How Labour members and the public can shape Council policy.
- How to become a Councillor.

We intend this to be an informal group discussion and a chance for everyone to share their thoughts and ideas.

Some are trying to bridge the gaps.[/QUOTE]
 
Well the NEC unanimously passed a motion insisting that setting of illegal budgets should not happen - so even the 'left' of the party don't support the type of action that Popular took. They've argued that they should be the ones implementing the cuts.

A motion that allowed right-leaning Labour councils like Lambeth to rule out doing so "because it's banned", rather than having to explicate their actual reasoning for doing so.
 
So you think the membership needs to stop squandering their greatest asset on the "dead horse" that is Corbyn and vote for another.

As regards horses that are not dead: Do you have any names in mind?

Why should I? I have never met any of them. Do you believe there isn't a leader better than Jeremy in there? I can't, I'd go clean off my rocker.
 
So you don't have any suggestion as to who would be a good alternative as leader and yet you suggest that Corbyn must be dropped as current leader.

I see. This is the yet another Anybody But Corbyn But Don't Ask Me Who That Anybody Is bollox again.

Went several rounds with that with other coy "moderates" and it bored me nearly off this forum.

Bye now
 
So you don't have any suggestion as to who would be a good alternative as leader and yet you suggest that Corbyn must be dropped as current leader.

I see. This is the yet another Anybody But Corbyn But Don't Ask Me Who That Anybody Is bollox again.

Went several rounds with that with other coy "moderates" and it bored me nearly off this forum.

Bye now

Yours is a silly argument, a game of internets. You just want me to name a name so you can shoot it down.

It should have been one of Corbyn's first jobs to establish a reasonable succession, one with enough political nous to ensure any gains weren't lost to the right. But no, the daft old sod has begun to believe his adoring crowd, begun to forget just how ordinary a performer he is.

Your insistence on an all out win is infantile. Nothing happens but the ground gets scorched.
 
You just want me to name a name so you can shoot it down.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a suggestion as replacement before considering a third leadership bid and/or forcing the resignation of Jeremy Corbyn from the leadership.

Your refusal to give even one indicates that you have little faith in your ability to find a "unifying" candidate. Indeed, it could be seen as the coyness of one hoping for a bid to provide a Hobson's choice of "moderates" once Corbyn has been ousted.

It is not a game but if it were, you would seem to possess very little sense of "fair play" or even the courage of your convictions.

It is as if you feel entitled to hold other people's favoured leader up for scrutiny, even dersion, and yet do not wish to mention an alternative if it risks the same scutiny or critisism.

You mentioned "silly" and infantile"....
 
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Its up to JC and his advisers-the cliff edge is in sight.

Labour mps wont have the members choice ,labour mps wont nominate rebecca double barrelled .Mexican standoff.

Livingstone said give it a year,even abbott said the polls must improve.

The left faces an impossible bind -to keep him risks being slaughtered in 2020 and ,unfairly,getting the blame for it.

Lose the west midlands mayor election in may and fail with the rule change to reduce the number of nominations at conference and no improvement in the polls then it starts to look like he will walk the plank.Traitor -you heard it here first.
 
Labour mps wont have the members choice ,labour mps wont nominate rebecca double barrelled .Mexican standoff.

That's a bit of a one sided "standoff". More like a Labour MPs digging their heels in. Or maybe Labour MPs throwing toys out of pram. Perhaps even Labour MPs kill off what remains of democracy withing the party and with Luke Akehurst and co's help, turn it into the UK version of the DNC.

Its up to JC and his advisers-the cliff edge is in sight.

From what you have said, it seems very little is "up to" anybody but Labour MPs. Especially the "moderate" ones. Or fuckin' else!

I'll sing it again: "Things, can only get Balirite!"
 
That's a bit of a one sided "standoff". More like a Labour MPs digging their heels in. Or maybe Labour MPs throwing toys out of pram. Perhaps even Labour MPs kill off what remains of democracy withing the party and with Luke Akehurst and co's help, turn it into the UK version of the DNC.



From what you have said, it seems very little is "up to" anybody but Labour MPs. Especially the "moderate" ones. Or fuckin' else!

I'll sing it again: "Things, can only get Balirite!"

Hysterical. The left is considered a barmy footnote by most of the public in today's world. Compromise is required and it starts with throwing its lot behind a cohort who can deliver the best outcome for not only the left, but Labour's voting base too.

Being so scared of the Blairites that momentum clings on to Jeremy is just delusional. Jeremy and co should be able to get at least one name on the ticket who isn't a Blairite. It's game over then as Jezza's annointed. I mean what else is the endgame? Carry on? To what end?
 
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