Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[mikey mikey]

Another strong performance on the may speach. Not.

Do you have a link to it?

 

[mikey mikey]

Here's an interview that draws attention to the inconsitency in May's proposal.
Jeremy Corbyn has responded to Theresa May's Brexit speech

“I am not quite sure how that is going to go down in Europe ... She seems to be wanting to have her cake and eat it.”

He adds

“This speech should have been given in Parliament where MPs could ask her questions on behalf of their constituents. She talks about Brexit restoring parliamentary sovereignty but, once again, she is determined to avoid real scrutiny of her plans.”

 

[agricola]

Another strong performance on the may speach. Not.

That was his first bad PMQs for at least six months.

 

[cantsin]

Another strong performance on the may speach. Not.

its been widely reported that JC's had good PMQs vs May week after weeks for months - cldnt personally give a feck either way particularly, but why bother implying otherwise ?

 

[kebabking]

That was his first bad PMQs for at least six months.

its been widely reported that JC's had good PMQs vs May week after weeks for months - cldnt personally give a feck either way particularly, but why bother implying otherwise ?

Supine wasn't talking about Corbyns PMQ's performance - evidenced by the fact that the comment was posted long before either of them walked into Parliament today - it was his dismal response to May's speech...

His PMQ display was no better - not that it mattered a great deal after yesterday's performance by May - it is of course worth recalling William Hagues regular trouncing of Blair at PMQ's, he was an excellent commons performer who got nowhere against Blair, whereas Corbyn is at best mediocre.

'Wasn't as shit as he has been' is not a great accolade, even when it's only one he can get.

 

[redsquirrel]

The shit thing about Corbyn isn't his 'performance' in PMQs it's his silence on Labour councils attacking people.

 

[cantsin]

Supine wasn't talking about Corbyns PMQ's performance - evidenced by the fact that the comment was posted long before either of them walked into Parliament today - it was his dismal response to May's speech...

point taken / apols on that

 

[kebabking]

YouGov | Voting Intention: Conservatives 42%, Labour 25%

Jan 19ths' results...

Owen Smith, Blairites etc...

 

[Pickman's model]

YouGov | Voting Intention: Conservatives 42%, Labour 25%

Jan 19ths' results...

Owen Smith, Blairites etc...

i thought we were living in an era in which we treated opinion polls with the disdain they deserve

 

[DownwardDog]

i thought we were living in an era in which we treated opinion polls with the disdain they deserve

Yep, 17% margin of error. Steady as she goes. MAKE ALLOTMENTS GREAT AGAIN.

 

[billy_bob]

The worst thing of all the shitty things going on right now is how much the Tories must be enjoying it all, they're getting such an easy ride from the country. Electoral politics must feel to them at the moment a bit like playing croquet with a bunch of people who keep smashing themselves in the face with their mallets.

 

[DotCommunist]

read earlier that the two Momentum factions basically, well ones stitched the other up by my eye- bureaucratic coup. Here:
The Battle for Momentum: What Just Happened? | Novara Media

 

[billy_bob]

read earlier that the two Momentum factions basically, well ones stitched the other up by my eye- bureaucratic coup. Here:
The Battle for Momentum: What Just Happened? | Novara Media

How incredibly surprising.

 

[kebabking]

How incredibly surprising.

i know, astonishing isn't it - who could have forecast that throwing a disparate bunch of lefties together in a personality cult could ever have resulted in a split?

perhaps some well known comedy act should make a sketch about it...

 

[Wilf]

i thought we were living in an era in which we treated opinion polls with the disdain they deserve

Well, yes, but at the general 2015 election we discovered Labour's position in the polls had been overstated. I'm not suggesting that's happening here - not sure Labour's figures could be much lower - but the incompetence of the pollsters shouldn't give Corbyn false hopes.

 

[DotCommunist]

i know, astonishing isn't it - who could have forecast that throwing a disparate bunch of lefties together in a personality cult could ever have resulted in a split?

perhaps some well known comedy act should make a sketch about it...

article suggests to me its those who see Momentum only as a labour vehicle vs those who'd been in it for more grassroots and widely focused aims

 

[Wilf]

read earlier that the two Momentum factions basically, well ones stitched the other up by my eye- bureaucratic coup. Here:
The Battle for Momentum: What Just Happened? | Novara Media

In answer to the question I and Butchers were asking earlier, we at least now know where Momentum members have been expending their energies.

 

[Pickman's model]

In answer to the question I and Butchers were asking earlier, we at least now know where Momentum members have been expending their energies.

self-abuse

 

[killer b]

article suggests to me its those who see Momentum only as a labour vehicle vs those who'd been in it for more grassroots and widely focused aims

it's stalinists/old labour vs trots.

 

[Wilf]

article suggests to me its those who see Momentum only as a labour vehicle vs those who'd been in it for more grassroots and widely focused aims

I know I'm being very hard on them, to some extent if you join an organisation and find there's another group in there with an opposing view, you are forced into battling them. But the problem seems to me that those who want grass roots activism end up not doing it because they get dragged into fighting those who don't. Ultimately though, that's what's shit about it.

 

[Wilf]

it's stalinists/old labour vs trots.

I'm not well enough up on momentum to know the precise line up of forces, but it does have that feel to it. I get the impression that if you wound this back to the 80s, some of the old labour types in momentum would have been voting to expel the trots. Irony is, they are both now part of an organisation that the Labour right has accused of being entryist.

 

[billy_bob]

It's about both of the divisions discussed above, I think: old divisions of the left had already surfaced and started fucking with Momentum to the point where (from what I've heard - I'm not directly involved) it sounded doomed long before this 'coup', which seems to be more about the PLP and their supporters trying to shut the rest up, again.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

it's stalinists/old labour vs trots.

A battle for the soul of the cobweb left.

 

[YouSir]

Momentum is as irrelevant now as most fractured Left wing groups, participation in whatever it is they're doing is way down and from some of the votes I've heard about they may as well just grab a table in a pub and argue it out for all the rest of the world cares. On the plus side though I think most of the more canny people who wanted it to be a grassroots organising thing are already walking away from it and just doing that, under the banner of Labour where they can. My experience at least.

I'm still a member myself, technically, if only because I haven't remembered to leave but as far as I could judge it's main use was/is as a way of mobilising support during leadership campaigns. It's not much cop for anything else. On the local level I'm aware of most organisation is happening informally through people just knowing who's sound and who isn't and reaching out from there, small, open meetings and the like. A good thing I reckon, never seems to lead to any cultish splits at least and even if the outcomes haven't been uniformly great there's definitely solid connections forming that way.

 

[Mr Moose]

it's stalinists/old labour vs trots.

More or less the voting public's dream team. Carry on!

 

[Wilf]

Baron Corbyn has just said he'll impose a 3 line whip to make his MPs vote to trigger Article 50 (guardian). Seems like a slight hostage to fortune as the deal on offer at that point might not be too grand, though it was probably his only option. Otherwise he gets painted as opposing the will of the people. Same time its probably going to be the next battle he has with the Labour right.

 

[treelover]

Momentum is as irrelevant now as most fractured Left wing groups, participation in whatever it is they're doing is way down and from some of the votes I've heard about they may as well just grab a table in a pub and argue it out for all the rest of the world cares. On the plus side though I think most of the more canny people who wanted it to be a grassroots organising thing are already walking away from it and just doing that, under the banner of Labour where they can. My experience at least.

I'm still a member myself, technically, if only because I haven't remembered to leave but as far as I could judge it's main use was/is as a way of mobilising support during leadership campaigns. It's not much cop for anything else. On the local level I'm aware of most organisation is happening informally through people just knowing who's sound and who isn't and reaching out from there, small, open meetings and the like. A good thing I reckon, never seems to lead to any cultish splits at least and even if the outcomes haven't been uniformly great there's definitely solid connections forming that way.

There is much more going on than that, Greater Manchester Momentum hosted 3 showings of IDB with over 600 applying for tickets, 60 people attended the last pre conf meeting here, but yes its the usual suspects effing things up.

 

[Supine]

Baron Corbyn has just said he'll impose a 3 line whip to make his MPs vote to trigger Article 50 (guardian)

Sell out shite bag. He wanted remain, he has made no effort to get in the way of brexit. It really is embarrassing.

 

[Wilf]

Sell out shite bag. He wanted remain, he has made no effort to get in the way of brexit. It really is embarrassing.

Well, he wanted brexit, but ended up campaigning (sort of) for remain. But after the vote what else could he say/do?

 

[Wilf]

There is much more going on than that, Greater Manchester Momentum hosted 3 showings of IDB with over 600 applying for tickets, 60 people attended the last pre conf meeting here, but yes its the usual suspects effing things up.

Presumably though the pre conference meeting was around September, at the height of the leadership campaign? As has been discussed over the last couple of pages, there were 2 broad options: working with the momentum of the leadership campaign and putting a strategy in place to change the party in terms of both policy and decision making - or to look outwards, work at the grass roots and , indirectly, change the party that way (though that wouldn't be the primary aim). I'm not involved, easy for me to say and all that... but I just don't see a strategy for doing either of those things.