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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

I thought you just said, as I predicted you would, that...
ruffneck23 said:
none of your business , you tedious fuck
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Were you just taking your time to call me a tedious fuck?

Or were you trying to think of your preferred leader of the Party because, honestly, you had never once given it a moment's thought?

LOL

​
 
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A troll is asking me questions! *sob*
 
What chance of gaining the trust of the Labour Party membership do any of Corbyn's detractors have, if they won't even name one single alternative? It strongly suggests that once Corbyn is out of the way, they want a Hobson's choice of candidates and would welcome a hundred thousand or more people leaving the Party in disgust. If that seems paranoid, just look at how they behaved in the last leadership election.
 
mikey mikey said:
What chance of gaining the trust of the Labour Party membership do any of Corbyn's detractors have, if they won't even name one single alternative?...
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several people have, in response to you asking for the names of alternatives, given you some - as have i - its not our fault that either your comprehension is sub-optimal, or that your witterings are so uninteresting that even you fail to recall them...
 
DotCommunist said:
much like the prospects of the labour left who apparently aren't even trusted with the NHS anymore. Will the last person to leave the party please turn out the lights etc.

and empty the ashtrays you animals
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The standard Blairite telling of the period from 1983 to 97 is that they slowly made the party 'electable' and 're-connected' with ordinary people. At one level I object to every element of that story. Some kind of non-dead John Smith* type leader (with clause 4 still in place) would almost certainly have won in 1997 and the people New Labour connected with were the middle class and capital - leaving the working class as assumed voting fodder without representation (and look where that's got us). Same time, I sometimes take an almost malicious pleasure in saying that the New Labour project was highly successful and followed the logic of the system (electoral and neo-liberal). The unfortunate thing is that every bit of that success has been success for the other side and has further weakened the, admittedly conservative, channels of communication between the working class and labour movement. It was a perfect storm, destroying the village to 'save it'. And that's part of Corbyn's problem, it's a revivalist social democratic movement based not on labourism or any real incursion into the working class, but Momentum.

Sorry, that meandered, but it does really feel as bad as you say. It's not so much that you can't imagine what a social democratic movement would look like today (to be honest I'm not sure I can given that it would have to be built within neo-liberalism) but you can't imagine who Corbyn/Labour are able to even talk to about it.

* Smith was an important staging post on the journey to new-lab, I'm just being charitable in not including him as part of the 'project'.
 
kebabking said:
several people have, in response to you asking for the names of alternatives, given you some - as have i - its not our fault that either your comprehension is sub-optimal, or that your witterings are so uninteresting that even you fail to recall them...
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Quote it or GTFO! :thumbs:
 
Wilf said:
The standard Blairite telling of the period from 1983 to 97 is that they slowly made the party 'electable' and 're-connected' with ordinary people. At one level I object to every element of that story. Some kind of non-dead John Smith* type leader (with clause 4 still in place) would almost certainly have won in 1997 and the people New Labour connected with were the middle class and capital - leaving the working class as assumed voting fodder without representation (and look where that's got us). Same time, I sometimes take an almost malicious pleasure in saying that the New Labour project was highly successful and followed the logic of the system (electoral and neo-liberal). The unfortunate thing is that every bit of that success has been success for the other side and has further weakened the, admittedly conservative, channels of communication between the working class and labour movement. It was a perfect storm, destroying the village to 'save it'. And that's part of Corbyn's problem, it's a revivalist social democratic movement based not on labourism or any real incursion into the working class, but Momentum.

Sorry, that meandered, but it does really feel as bad as you say. It's not so much that you can't imagine what a social democratic movement would look like today (to be honest I'm not sure I can given that it would have to be built within neo-liberalism) but you can't imagine who Corbyn/Labour are able to even talk to about it.

* Smith was an important staging post on the journey to new-lab, I'm just being charitable in not including him as part of the 'project'.
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I've just about remembered the point I was supposed to be making there: however much he's been fucked over by the Labour right, circumstances and all that, Corbyn chooses to do electoral politics. And by the unforgiving logic of that, he/momentum/the labour left are failing and have no obvious route to even get back into the game. But part of the reason he/they are fucked is the way New Labour undermined the ability of future labour lefts to build anything.
 
Wilf said:
it's a revivalist social democratic movement based not on labourism or any real incursion into the working class, but Momentum.
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I can't be the only person to have noticed the irony of a grouping called momentum who had it and have yet to capitalise on it. Thats not to knock people, the people making labour the largest party in europe and genuinley wanting a real alternative. But its Labour. Even its left aren't us. The disconect of 'politics as done to us rather than by us' is still glaring. And for all his charmingly elbow patched marrow growing labour leftism of the old school, corbyn isn't winning. If he did, if he had the big chair tomorrow and pressed forth with his policies. Well. Every dirty trick in the book would be used and they'd do a wilson/syzria job on him. Harsh realities. If anything watching the number done on even mild left electoral alternatives has firmed up my view that there is but one path (one solution!). We kill them all.
 
Wilf said:
Corbyn chooses to do electoral politics. And by the unforgiving logic of that
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aye cross posted as you responded. You'd think getting to mid 30s one would know what waste that game is. But I still had some hopes. Foolish as they seem now.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
He seems to think that becase he REALLY wants to achieve stuff - like ending poverty - it makes him both authentic and appealing to the working classes. His fanclub seem to also think this.

When asked if he has a programme or a plan to achieve his vision it seems to annoy him that such trifling details are even mentioned.

For a pensioner he is quite sulky/pissy imho.
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What we need is a left wing John Prescott
 
Ultimately, it is the British people that are fucked. Well the majority of them anyway. I am starting to think that a second Scottish Independence referendum is the only way to stop the English dragging the Scottish down with them. Hopefully the Welsh can flee too!
 
Wilf said:
I've just about remembered the point I was supposed to be making there: however much he's been fucked over by the Labour right, circumstances and all that, Corbyn chooses to do electoral politics. And by the unforgiving logic of that, he/momentum/the labour left are failing and have no obvious route to even get back into the game. But part of the reason he/they are fucked is the way New Labour undermined the ability of future labour lefts to build anything.
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Unconvinced he has any 'choice' to do anything else, does he?

I'd agree with you that his prospects down the electoral route look pretty grim at the moment, but does he have any other route? Realistically?
 
Jeremy has been like a breath of fresh air. He's a bit like a football manager who has taken over an ailing, recently relegated sleeping giant of a club. He just needs a bit of time and patience from the fans and to make a few more changes to the team. In Abbot, Mcdonnell and a couple of the younger Mps he's got the spine of a really formidable team. Keep the faith. Jezwecan.
 
William of Walworth said:
Unconvinced he has any 'choice' to do anything else, does he?

I'd agree with you that his prospects down the electoral route look pretty grim at the moment, but does he have any other route? Realistically?
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No, I agree. Electoral politics is what he does, it's all he knows and he couldn't become anything else. I wasn't making some ultra-left point, just noting that if that's what he does he has to be judged by the logic of that dirty game. My day dream when he was elected was that with the influx into the party they might have at least tried to build something outside of it, linking to communities, fighting austerity. Mind I've also been banging on about why he/Momentum haven't done that. Not only do they have a focus on the inner party shite and battles, but they also have no way of working in working class communities. But given that the old channels of labourism have atrophied, there's not much left. And the irony is as DC said, this is a party with over 400,000 members.
 
Wilf said:
No, I agree. Electoral politics is what he does, it's all he knows and he couldn't become anything else. I wasn't making some ultra-left point, just noting that if that's what he does he has to be judged by the logic of that dirty game. My day dream when he was elected was that with the influx into the party they might have at least tried to build something outside of it, linking to communities, fighting austerity. Mind I've also been banging on about why he/Momentum haven't done that. Not only do they have a focus on the inner party shite and battles, but they also have no way of working in working class communities. But given that the old channels of labourism have atrophied, there's not much left. And the irony is as DC said, this is a party with over 400,000 members.
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I've been asking over and over on here since the first election, what have you done internally, what are your plans? Nothing, not an answer, not one. Now we have idiots shoutily supporting corbyn who aren't even in the party. (And putting off people from voting labour if they ever went on the knocker). Again, i think it's just paper talk though. The chance was there and it wasn't taken. The plan/idea/hope that had been the whole and sole idea since the early 80s.
 
fiannanahalba said:
Jeremy has been like a breath of fresh air. He's a bit like a football manager who has taken over an ailing, recently relegated sleeping giant of a club. He just needs a bit of time and patience from the fans and to make a few more changes to the team. In Abbot, Mcdonnell and a couple of the younger Mps he's got the spine of a really formidable team. Keep the faith. Jezwecan.
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Actual lol

Edit: that's a windup right?
 
mikey mikey said:
Who was your choice last leadership election> Angela Godawful Eagle or Owen Austerity-is-right Smith?

Not like you will fucking answer, if you're like the rest of the Shy Red Tories.:rolleyes:
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I'll answer you pillock. None of them. None of them were/are electable in a general election.

The Tories will enjoy an open goal and continue dismantling Britain's public services for as long as it takes for this fuckwit to stand down. And please. Never call me a Tory again.
 
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