Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Mr Moose]

I think May will make it stick. Once Abbot, Corbyn and McDonald are lined up on the front bench she'll point out that she went to a grammar school as did Corbyn and McDonald and that some of his own front bench send their kids private - and then paint them as wanting to deny the system that gave them advantages to other 'ordinary hard working people'

I personally don't have a problem with selective schools, but, my concern would be that selective schools become better funded and access to higher education shouldn't be discriminated based on if the applications went to grammar or comprehensive schools.

There is absolutely no need for selective schools.

Most secondary schools are so big that they can create a critical masses of science or arts or any other disciplines to push their grades up. If they don't they could work with neighbouring schools.

The social mobility argument is completely spurious.

 

[not a trot]

They're actively supporting/promoting something that perpetuates inequality and unfairness. To my mind that makes them scum.

I am sure Corbyn et al and various other leading Leftwingers from the past would agree with you.

 

[Sue]

And what if they misguidedly wanted "the very best" for their child?

I guess that depends on what you perceive as 'the very best' really.

 

[krtek a houby]

I am sure Corbyn et al and various other leading Leftwingers from the past would agree with you.

Disagree. You can be left and not think other people are scum just because they don't agree with you.

 

[Sue]

Disagree. You can be left and not think other people are scum just because they don't agree with you.

I don't think they're scum because they don't agree with me. I think they're scum because they're actively supporting/promoting inequality and unfairness.

 

[krtek a houby]

I guess that depends on what you perceive as 'the very best' really.

Who, me? No, it would be what the parents think. Kids don't have the choice where they get schooled at. It's a bit unfair to have them all down as "scum". It'd be like saying all those who voted Brexit are xenephobic. It's emotive and not true. As I've learnt.

 

[Mr Moose]

Disagree. You can be left and not think other people are scum just because they don't agree with you.

An important point because all evidence suggests that this judgemental behaviour puts ordinary folk, who fear being judged, off.

But nevertheless you are scum for airing it.

 

[krtek a houby]

I don't think they're scum because they don't agree with me. I think they're scum because they're actively supporting/promoting inequality and unfairness.

And do you think that they are actively aware of supporting/promoting equality?

 

[Sue]

Who, me? No, it would be what the parents think. Kids don't have the choice where they get schooled at. It's a bit unfair to have them all down as "scum". It'd be like saying all those who voted Brexit are xenephobic. It's emotive and not true. As I've learnt.

I didn't say the children were scum; as you say, they likely have little choice in the matter.

 

[krtek a houby]

I didn't say the children were scum; as you say, they likely have little choice in the matter.

Fair enough.

 

[Sue]

And do you think that they are actively aware of supporting/promoting equality?

Dp phone nonsense.

 

[krtek a houby]

Dp phone nonsense.

Nope. Right over my head.

Well, I reckon parents should have the right to send their kids to whatever schools they like. In a better world, of course, all schools would be top drawer and equal but that's sadly not going to happen.

 

[Mr Moose]

Nope. Right over my head.

Well, I reckon parents should have the right to send their kids to whatever schools they like. In a better world, of course, all schools would be top drawer and equal but that's sadly not going to happen.

But most schools are pretty good at the least.

 

[kabbes]

Where I live and where I work, not sending your kids to fee-paying schools is the unusual decision. I've had this fee-paying talk many, many times with many, many friends. I've pointed out until I am blue in the face both the problems socially with such a system and also the evidence that the kids themselves may actually do better in a state school anyway.

I get a lot of general agreement from people... but it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to anybody's decision. Everybody the parents know who also has kids is sending their kids to private school, and swimming against that crowd would seem like taking a strong position, which seems like a gamble with their kids' futures.

I don't know if I exactly have a point there, but there is at least a perspective. People from all walks of life do things because that's what people like them do. You can condemn them for it, but it's a pretty broad blanket of condemnation.

 

[krtek a houby]

But most schools are pretty good at the least.

That's excellent. For years we were told that the British education system and the schools were in a shocking state; so it's a relief to know that that isn't the case. I'm no fan of the posh schools and old school tie bs, just to clarify. I think that most parents just want what they perceive to be "the best" available education for their kids and it's not some diabolical plan (on their part) to shit on those who can't afford it.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Then enlighten me please.

Try comparing the membership, politics and organisation of Militant and Momentum; you'll see that apart from the initial big M they don't actually share much at all. Go on do some research.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Mr Moose]

That's excellent. For years we were told that the British education system and the schools were in a shocking state; so it's a relief to know that that isn't the case. I'm no fan of the posh schools and old school tie bs, just to clarify. I think that most parents just want what they perceive to be "the best" available education for their kids and it's not some diabolical plan (on their part) to shit on those who can't afford it.

Sure, but they need to question what they've heard about how terrible schools are if they really wish to make an informed decision. If they want to use the received wisdom about schools as a fig leaf to do what they wish then they can just carry on.

 

[Sue]

Nope. Right over my head.

Well, I reckon parents should have the right to send their kids to whatever schools they like. In a better world, of course, all schools would be top drawer and equal but that's sadly not going to happen.

Phone was playing up so double posted by accident hence the deletion. No deep political point.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course there is no 'right' to engage in anti-social behaviour that damages the life chances of other people and forces society into being organised around the continued dominance of a tiny privileged minority. What does exist is the power (economic/political/cultural) to impose that anti-social behaviour on the rest of us - and to sell it as a precious liberty.

To even talk of the collective provision of a such a central social necessity in terms of rights in this manner is to have swallowed the idea of society as simply separate individuals competing with each other and to have turned consumer rights into an overarching principle for how society should be organised. It sounds harmless to talk of rights, but in this instance it is poison. Exactly why those who would impose this damaging behviour seek to talk of it in those terms.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Nope. Right over my head.

Well, I reckon parents should have the right to send their kids to whatever schools they like. In a better world, of course, all schools would be top drawer and equal but that's sadly not going to happen.

Really? So we'd all have an actual realisable right to send our kids to Eton...how would that work?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[krtek a houby]

Really? So we'd all have an actual realisable right to send our kids to Eton...how would that work?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I guess if they dropped the fees? Opened it up to all?

 

[kabbes]

Have you ever known anybody who has been to Eton, krtek?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I guess if they dropped the fees? Opened it up to all?

Made it a comprehensive?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[krtek a houby]

Made it a comprehensive?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

If it offered the best education, sure.

 

[krtek a houby]

Have you ever known anybody who has been to Eton, krtek?

There was one lad who worked in another department, years back and he had the poshest accent, ever. But he didn't act all superior etc. I was told he went to one of the posh schools but that was second hand info.

 

[kabbes]

There was one lad who worked in another department, years back and he had the poshest accent, ever. But he didn't act all superior etc. I was told he went to one of the posh schools but that was second hand info.

"One of the posh schools" is not Eton. Did he go to Eton? Or, for that matter, Rugby or Winchester? Or one of the other public schools?

 

[Whagwan]

For the record, I was on a scholarship at a posh school and(I hope) I'm not scum. Don't see anyone I went to school with as an adult though, all my mates were from the local comprehensive.

And I don't use the old school tie business, it's never been something I've even thought of despite being told I "should make something of it" by a consultant a couple of years back.

 

[krtek a houby]

"One of the posh schools" is not Eton. Did he go to Eton? Or, for that matter, Rugby or Winchester? Or one of the other public schools?

He went to one of the posh schools, I don't know anymore than that. I thought Eton was a posh school. My apologies.

 

[kabbes]

He went to one of the posh schools, I don't know anymore than that. I thought Eton was a posh school. My apologies.

Eton is so far beyond posh school.

I know people who went to Eton and Rugby and Winchester. I'm even friends with some, in as much as people you hang out with from time to time can be considered friends. We get on well enough. But they view me with indulgence like a pet, as an oik who somehow has slipped into their world. And I am no salt-of-the-earth mockney estuary type, for the record.

The point is this: you can open up financial access to Eton as much as you like and it will change nothing. People go there because it is their world, not my world and certainly not your world.

 

[krtek a houby]

Eton is so far beyond posh school.

I know people who went to Eton and Rugby and Winchester. I'm even friends with some, in as much as people you hang out with from time to time can be considered friends. We get on well enough. But they view me with indulgence like a pet, as an oik who somehow has slipped into their world. And I am no salt-of-the-earth mockney estuary type, for the record.

The point is this: you can open up financial access to Eton as much as you like and it will change nothing. People go there because it is their world, not my world and certainly not your world.

Oh, I wouldn't want it to be my world! But surely if you opened it up, as suggested, wouldn't the ethos and attitude of the place inevitably change? Eventually?

The bloke at work never talked down to me. But I don't doubt that many from that life are capable of it.