Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[kabbes]

Oh, I wouldn't want it to be my world! But surely if you opened it up, as suggested, wouldn't the ethos and attitude of the place inevitably change? Eventually?

Eton hasn't changed in 575 years and no sticking plaster fix is going to do so now. The only way it's changing is to turn it into a state school under local authority control and make entry subject to a lottery approach.

The bloke at work never talked down to me. But I don't doubt that many from that life are capable of it.

Did he go to one of these seven schools?

Charterhouse, Eton College, Harrow School, Rugby School, Shrewsbury School, Westminster School, and Winchester College

Or did he just go to a generically "posh" private school?

 

[19force8]

Disagree. You can be left and not think other people are scum just because they don't agree with you.

Wherever did you get such a quaint notion?

 

[eoin_k]

Watches everyone getting irate for no apparent reason, notices 'show ignored content' link, considers clicking on it, thinks better of it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

amazing how you can sound so sure of yourself, whilst at the same showing clearly you havent got a scooby doo what your actually talking about.

Especially so, with your track record of total ignorance / reactionary cretinism re: Liverpool related matters of the 80's.

One can enlighten, or one can launch an 'ad hom' attack. The gentleman enlightens, the thug...

 

[Sasaferrato]

They are so tied up in their own bubble, believing they can win by getting ordinary non voters to vote, they might just agree to it.

Heaven help them if they do. As has been pointed out, the Conservative majority is small, and their house isn't in great order at the moment either.

I feel that it would be better for Labour to hang in there at the moment. Their internal squabbles will be resolved with time, or at least one would hope so.

 

[Sasaferrato]

453

Access to higher education is mostly based on grades, though, not what school you went to. In fact Bristol University attempted to do the opposite of what you suggest and discriminate in favour of comprehensive school candidates over private school candidates after recognising that the higher grades produced by private schools are a poor predictor of performance at higher education.

The thing the people sending their kids to selective schools will be looking for, as those who send their kids private do, is higher grades.

There is a great deal of truth in that. Once the university place is given that's that. The child who has been hothoused to get good grades doesn't cut it at university, and drops out. That is a wasted place that should have gone to a more able person.

 

[Sasaferrato]

And what if they misguidedly wanted "the very best" for their child?

That doesn't fit the 'lowest common denominator' socialist ideal.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

That doesn't fit the 'lowest common denominator' socialist ideal.

Care to explain what this "'lowest common denominator' socialist ideal" is when it's at home?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Sasaferrato]

Try comparing the membership, politics and organisation of Militant and Momentum; you'll see that apart from the initial big M they don't actually share much at all. Go on do some research.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Both are/were ultra-left groups, trying to push the Labour party leftwards. There is not, and never has been an appetite for ultra-left politics in the UK, and such groups harm the mainstream socialist cause.

A synopsis would have been handy, I don't have time to read up on every subject, life is too short.

 

[Pickman's model]

Both are/were ultra-left groups, trying to push the Labour party leftwards. There is not, and never has been an appetite for ultra-left politics in the UK, and such groups harm the mainstream socialist cause.

you have it the wrong way round, 'mainstream' socialists harm the ultra-left cause.

 

[Pickman's model]

453


There is a great deal of truth in that. Once the university place is given that's that. The child who has been hothoused to get good grades doesn't cut it at university, and drops out. That is a wasted place that should have gone to a more able person.

a lot of people drop out of university. this doesn't mean they're not able. it doesn't mean they've been hothoused. it can happen for a range of reasons, to do with debt, family issues, it being a wrong course and that.

 

[bimble]

It's sad that she attempted to explain her decision to send her kid private by saying you don't understand my culture.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Both are/were ultra-left groups, trying to push the Labour party leftwards. There is not, and never has been an appetite for ultra-left politics in the UK, and such groups harm the mainstream socialist cause.

A synopsis would have been handy, I don't have time to read up on every subject, life is too short.

One was a democratic centralist, revolutionary Trotskyist organisation with at the most about 8000 members. The other is a collection of social democrats, parliamentary socialists and some revolutionary socialists, numbering something in excess of 20000 and aimed at supporting Corbyn.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Sasaferrato]

you have it the wrong way round, 'mainstream' socialists harm the ultra-left cause.

That's true I suppose.

 

[Sasaferrato]

One was a democratic centralist, revolutionary Trotskyist organisation with at the most about 8000 members. The other is a collection of social democrats, parliamentary socialists and some revolutionary socialists, numbering something in excess of 20000 and aimed at supporting Corbyn.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

And in both cases damaging to the Labour cause.

It has been my observation over half a century, that extremist politics, right or left, don't play well in Britain. We're a fairly conservative lot really.

 

[Sasaferrato]

It's sad that she attempted to explain her decision to send her kid private by saying you don't understand my culture.

View attachment 93802

And others don't? A bit bloody patronising. I've done the best I can for my child, and that includes not sending her to a public school. It wasn't for her, at that time. No financial sacrifice on my part either, the taxpayer would have paid the bill.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Care to explain what this "'lowest common denominator' socialist ideal" is when it's at home?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

It seems like the politics of envy, akin to 'I can't afford a BMW, so I'm forbidding you from having one'.

If we were prepared to increase the education budget twenty fold, all schools could have the facilities of Eton, but we are not going to do that.

I have experience of both a state comprehensive, and one of the best public schools in Scotland. In truth, there wasn't a huge difference in the ability of the teachers between the two, but there was a huge difference in classroom discipline. Probably the biggest difference was that you had the same teacher right through, and smaller classes. Because of the smaller classes, the teacher picked up on the weaker aspects of your understanding, and did something about it. In the last year I was at the state comprehensive, I had four English teachers, none of which were interested enough to realise that the four of us right at the back were passing the time playing pontoon.

My parents weren't wealthy, I got a partial scholarship, but even so, it was a major outlay for them. That kind of spurred you on to succeed.

 

[DotCommunist]

It's sad that she attempted to explain her decision to send her kid private by saying you don't understand my culture.

View attachment 93802

Fuck me what a shithouse excuse. I'd fogotten that.

 

[bimble]

Why is the news saying that Shami Chakrabarti (along with everyone else in labour) is planning to abstain and say nothing at all when Investigatory Powers Bill / snoopers charter goes through in a couple of weeks?

 

[bemused]

Fuck me what a shithouse excuse. I'd fogotten that.

I wonder why these people simply don't change their minds? It's pretty clear that she thinks private education has better outcomes for kids.

 

[19force8]

Okay, I'm jet lagged to hell at the moment please be gentle.

I'm really not getting this Chakrabati thing - haven't seen the Peston piece in full, but it looked to me like a case of someone who's very capable in their own speciality being caught off guard when asked to take up a wider brief. In this case Human Rights lawyer meets the dirty art of the political interview. She'll learn - she's a barrister, she'll learn fast.

On the issue of her sending her kids to private school, well that's just a thing some people do. Like buying a Lamborghini or private healthcare. I don't agree with it, but in a capitalist society there's worse behaviour. It'd be another matter if she was a life long socialist, then I'd feel I had the right to talk about hypocrisy, etc.

The reason she's in the Labour Party is not because of some burning commitment to socialist principles. I assume she was offered the job because Team Corbyn wanted someone with the right instincts and able to handle the detail of the crap that's been poured down on us for the last thirty odd years. I also assume she was given assurances about the backing of the party to resist more of the same and who knows maybe even repeal some of it one day. [god, some people are gullible]

So, potato/tomato - Lamborghini/Fettes. At least it wasn't the London Oratory.

I used to have a much tougher line on Diane Abbot - life long socialist, sent her kids to private school, weak excuses about gang culture, blah blah. That was until mine went to school. [I'm not criticising the inner London schools they went to and no, we didn't send them private] Over the last two years of primary a few of the kids were taken out by their parents and put in private prep schools. As far as I could tell all the families were Afro-Caribbean and those I knew weren't well off. Talking to a couple of the mums they were concerned that the system hadn't serve the needs of black kids well [couldn't argue there, besides they were talking from personal experience] and that their kids [mostly boys] had one chance and if they didn't grab it now they'd be fucked for life.

As a socialist I still say that Diane should have done the right thing, but I won't be calling her scum. Besides, not my thing*.


* Except for Kinnock, Blair, Blunkett, Straw, and on and on and on.

 

[cantsin]

Okay, I'm jet lagged to hell at the moment please be gentle.

I'm really not getting this Chakrabati thing - haven't seen the Peston piece in full, but it looked to me like a case of someone who's very capable in their own speciality being caught off guard when asked to take up a wider brief. In this case Human Rights lawyer meets the dirty art of the political interview. She'll learn - she's a barrister, she'll learn fast.

On the issue of her sending her kids to private school, well that's just a thing some people do. Like buying a Lamborghini or private healthcare. I don't agree with it, but in a capitalist society there's worse behaviour. It'd be another matter if she was a life long socialist, then I'd feel I had the right to talk about hypocrisy, etc.

The reason she's in the Labour Party is not because of some burning commitment to socialist principles. I assume she was offered the job because Team Corbyn wanted someone with the right instincts and able to handle the detail of the crap that's been poured down on us for the last thirty odd years. I also assume she was given assurances about the backing of the party to resist more of the same and who knows maybe even repeal some of it one day. [god, some people are gullible]

So, potato/tomato - Lamborghini/Fettes. At least it wasn't the London Oratory.

I used to have a much tougher line on Diane Abbot - life long socialist, sent her kids to private school, weak excuses about gang culture, blah blah. That was until mine went to school. [I'm not criticising the inner London schools they went to and no, we didn't send them private] Over the last two years of primary a few of the kids were taken out by their parents and put in private prep schools. As far as I could tell all the families were Afro-Caribbean and those I knew weren't well off. Talking to a couple of the mums they were concerned that the system hadn't serve the needs of black kids well [couldn't argue there, besides they were talking from personal experience] and that their kids [mostly boys] had one chance and if they didn't grab it now they'd be fucked for life.

As a socialist I still say that Diane should have done the right thing, but I won't be calling her scum. Besides, not my thing*.


* Except for Kinnock, Blair, Blunkett, Straw, and on and on and on.

no one here called Abbot' scum', or said that there wasn't "worse behaviour" out there than Chakrabarti's hypocrisy - just that with the Grammar schools issue a big, ongoing one, there couldn't be a worse time to pack the shadow cabinet with politicians who opt to use private / selective school for their own kids, knowing that they'll be (rightly ) the object of scorn, every - bloody - time - it comes up.

+ , it is just hypocritical wank.

 

[DotCommunist]

the best bit about abbot sending her kid private was that these non private schools were in her own bloody constituency. What a cheek. I believe she later claimed her son had begged her to let him go private

but yes, its hard to see how an effective opposition to grammars can be mounted if the other person simply has to point out your hypocrisy to win the exchange.

 

[19force8]

no one here called Abbot' scum', or said that there wasn't "worse behaviour" out there than Chakrabarti's hypocrisy - just that with the Grammar schools issue a big, ongoing one, there couldn't be a worse time to pack the shadow cabinet with politicians who opt to use private / selective school for their own kids, knowing that they'll be (rightly ) the object of scorn, every - bloody - time - it comes up.

+ , it is just hypocritical wank.

Erm, yes they did:

They're actively supporting/promoting something that perpetuates inequality and unfairness. To my mind that makes them scum.

 

[cantsin]

Erm, yes they did:

ah well, sorry, I was wrong on that point, one person did, you didn't, whatevs

 

[19force8]

ah well, sorry, I was wrong on that point, one person did, you didn't, whatevs

I think Butchers did too, but that might have been about something else [jet lag].

 

[cantsin]

I think Butchers did too, but that might have been about something else [jet lag].

( no worries, but just fyi, you may be confusing me with someone that gives a flying feck about this 'scum' non issue)

 

[19force8]

( no worries, but just fyi, you may be confusing me with someone that gives a flying feck about this 'scum' non issue)

Oh I do love the passive-aggressive tense. More please.

 

[cantsin]

Oh I do love the passive-aggressive tense. More please.

again, easy to confuse (I guess ) , but pass-agg ( as a 'tense' ? did you mean 'tone' ? ) and "slowly growing impatience with irrelevant gubbins" very different beasts really

 

[redsquirrel]

And what if they misguidedly wanted "the very best" for their child?

And fuck everybody else, lovely.