butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I said that your post that i replied to, this one:
quite specifically and deliberately accuses poster on here of doing a specific thing. Can you name these people and where they did what you have claimed?
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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quite specifically and deliberately accuses poster on here of doing a specific thing. Can you name these people and where they did what you have claimed?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Diversions. Read the article
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why do you fucking bother?
start with a few examples and we'll go from there
The new person and the absent person will carry a lot for the group; in our minds there is the physically present group and those not in the group. So, a feeling of cohesiveness and working together could be achieved by ejecting someone (the problem) from the group and disturbed by adding someone new.
Just one. Start with just one I reckon.
I've just got a cup of tea and I'm waiting patiently
I was about to offer ginger nuts but thought better not in case of causing accidental offence!
bemused
Well-Known Member
Apart from people who push in front of me at queues I struggle to waste the effort hating people. Why do the Jews get some much hate in some parts of the left? I assume it has something to do with Israel.
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Cid
Proper break this time
For most student-type activists of my generation there was a strong anti-war component... People who cut their teeth on the Iraq war march, DSEI protests, 2006 Lebanon war etc. And attached to that there's a strong pro-Palestine/anti-Israel element. The SOAS/UCL/Kings milieu, international politics focus... Galloway and Livingstone, Pilger and Fisk. For the most part it isn't anti-Jewish, just anti-Israel (specifically anti-zionist state/anti-Likud) but it makes for strange bedfellows... And there is certainly an element of it that uncritically accepts 'from the river to the sea' type rhetoric. Beyond that there are conspiracy types who buy into the wider anti-jewish, Bilderberg conference Jewish illuminati stuff. From personal experience of student politics in the early 2000s, and linked London political stuff, squat scene etc. Can't speak for anything wider than that.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Who here has used the phrase 'self hating Jews'? And, as it is no one, why have you put it in quote marks? That's a tad dishonest, no?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I was not outraged by Ms Walker's comments, because she was right.
The death of circa 6m Jews caused by the Nazis, which included members of my family, was hideous. The Armenian genocide was equally hideous, as was the death of the Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica. Japan's actions in Nanking, Pol Pot in Cambodia... history is littered with instances of man's inhumanity towards man.
There is no hierarchy in terms of the 'importance' of atrocity, be it a single death, or the death of millions. Every life was important to someone, every death is equally dreadful.
Perhaps Holocaust Memorial Day needs to be renamed, to include all those who died as a result of someone else's fucked up ego.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
True and ive been trying to point this out for years and pretty much given up tbh. There's loads of antisemitism in the milieu around the far left eg the squatter scene and sometimes but much less often on the far left itself. I could name countless examples ive personally experienced, in fact id say its more prevalent there in some respects than in wider society. I havent been following the whole walker row but i will say its not surprising to me in the least that some of these people seem to have a bigger political voice or think they have been given a bigger one than perhaps was so in the past
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
I don't see why we should dictate to people how they go about recognising the significant events of their oppressions. If we recognise they are all horrific then we also recognise there will be different experiences.
It would be a bit like saying to Black Americans that maybe before they commemorate slavery they must first consider all the slaveries of the ages. Ghastly. Inappropriate.
The left needs to let people get on with it and stop feeling the need to take a position unless something is really being neglected and denied.
bimble
floofy
I wasn't outraged by anything Walker has said either, or by Livingstone's nonsense. Or by the many people I've happened to meet over the years in squat / environmental / student politics / pro Palestine stuff who seem great until they say something about how the Rothschild lizards are funding the Zionist media conspiracy whatever. It's really just 
now, exactly as Fogwoman said.
now, exactly as Fogwoman said.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yeah the most egregious example of it that i can remember was when i was on a mark duggan demo with someone, got chatting to them in a cafe after and it emerged that they had 'interesting views' on the holocaust.
Sick of this and sick of the general disbelief on the left that its even a thing.
I also suspect a lot of the people going on about HMD dont give a shit about the other genocides, its like israeli apologists who go waaaah what about iran when gaza is brought up.
Sick of this and sick of the general disbelief on the left that its even a thing.
I also suspect a lot of the people going on about HMD dont give a shit about the other genocides, its like israeli apologists who go waaaah what about iran when gaza is brought up.
I wasn't outraged by anything Walker has said either, or by Livingstone's nonsense. Or by the many people I've happened to meet over the years in squat / environmental / student politics / pro Palestine stuff who seem great until they say something about how the Rothschild lizards are funding the Zionist media conspiracy whatever. It's really just
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Anyway yeah thats a big reason why ive always had serious reservations about corbyn and that, and the general reaction to any suggestion that antisemitism is even an issue, ie that its just being used to attack jc, even more so and makes me even less likely to want anything to do with it.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Is all this a new (or at least revived) thing?
Barring one over-enthusiastic supporter of Palestine I don't recall encountering any noticeable anti-Semitism back in my "activist" days (late 80s to early 00s).
...but then neither conspiracism nor identity politics were really present IME back then.
Barring one over-enthusiastic supporter of Palestine I don't recall encountering any noticeable anti-Semitism back in my "activist" days (late 80s to early 00s).
...but then neither conspiracism nor identity politics were really present IME back then.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'm pretty sure its not, the book I cannot remember the name of was at least 1970s. Right wingers have always had a deep conspiracist streak with jews at the heart of a hidden history etc. I'm pretty sure it was also present in less than modern conspiracy thinking as well though, templars, rosicrucians, all the pre 9/11 acid tinged stuff from the 60s etc.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yeah, what I meant was it's presence within the Left. My experience is that it was peripheral at worst with likes of David Icke and that guy in Bristol (who I think posted here briefly) only getting a toehold in the fringes of the Green movement.
At least until the very end of the 90s onwards when Indymedia started to go a bit weird and the whole "We are all Hamas " and Respect type bollocks started filling the gap left by an exhausted anti-cap scene.
It just seems to have gradually got closer and closer to the "mainstream" of what passes for the left/protest scene than I ever recall.
A real indicator of how weak we are right now imo, and makes me very glad that I'm working outside the scene now. Maybe that needs to be "outside and against" hmm?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The socialist movement had to fight in the 1870s to get rid of this nonsense. People like Lasalle were openly anti-semitic. Umberto Eco's Prague Cemetery is great on this if you follows the footnotes. It was beaten which is why oh so innocent shit about it being part of the labour movement is quite sickening. We chased it out. Very few other movements did -and if they tried to they didn't succeed or intend to succeed in such a thorough manner.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Tony Gosling. Scum
It's always been there in the background, but has multiplied since 9/11 IME. It's rise is directly related to the rise in popularity of conspiracy theory. I don't think there's many full-blooded anti-semites out there in the radical left, it's more a problem of people uncritically repeating stuff they've heard without understanding it's origin or meaning.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
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