Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[butchersapron]

What's that from? butchersapron

The pretend pro-democracy demo (actually pro-lib-dem) in the week before they announced the tory-lib-dem-coalition in 2010.

 

[quimcunx]

Cheers. Nice shade of purple.

 

[butchersapron]

As an overseas observer, there's a certain satisfaction watching the rebellious Labour lot becoming increasingly desperate and furious, tears and all, at Corbyn's unwillingness to be a good sport, play the game and resign like they would have if this many people had resigned.

Bryant saying he expected Corbyn voted Leave, and the subsequent gleeful attempts to reveal if that's true - even with Corbyn stating he voted remain, is a real low blow and one that won't go un-noticed.

The PLP can't make Corbyn resign and get him out of the way so they can make a sensible choice about the next leader by promoting whatever vacuous ratfuck they find who's willing to be like all the other leaders since Blair that they've undermined just enough to maintain their career prospects.

Their utter befuddlement as his refusal to resign is glorious, as they realise they can't force him out - except by triggering a leadership election, which Corbyn will likely win. Or triggering a leadership election, that he is excluded from, and then facing the wroth of their membership.

If he's going to go, and I hope he doesn't, I hope he tears down the whole fucking lot with him.

Thing is, if he was playing it like them they wouldn't be here to to do this.

 

[Balbi]

Yeah, he fell into the trap of the 'big tent' politician, despite it undermining his predecessor. Too nice for his own good? Or just unexpectedly having to form a cabinet with what he had.

If he'd gone full bore from the leadership election and left the backbenchers out, they'd still be playing merry hell back there - after all, they've got a decade or more's contacts with the right people in the media, know how to get stories out and had no intention at all of even considering giving him a fair go.

 

[imposs1904]

The pretend pro-democracy demo (actually pro-lib-dem) in the week before they announced the tory-lib-dem-coalition in 2010.

Is that bloke at the front taking the piss? He looks familiar.

 

[rubbershoes]

So as usual on the Urban politics board the dissenting voices have been shouted down . Meanwhile out in the rest of the country Corbyn is still regarded as an ineffective idealist.
None of the people I've talked to about him since Friday think he is a good Labour leader. And these are people who hate the Tories and everything they do.

You'd probably dismiss their views, calling them traitors or lickspittles. But they are the people Labour needs to connect with again if it is going to get back into power and prevent the Tories causing more shite.

 

[chilango]

How long before they wheel out an ex-PM/leader a la Kinnck Snr or Brown to call for him to go?

 

[SaskiaJayne]

I'm coming around to the idea that most dangerous at where we are now is the rise of racism, xenophobia & the far right if the country is allowed to turn in on itself. I'm a great fan of Jeremy's left wing ideals but this country needs an electable Labour government in waiting soonest because it needs a Labour government even if it is Nu Labour. I think the only direction a Tory government will take is to the right.

 

[chilango]

Have you not been paying attention?

One of the reasons were in this mess is the retreat of Labour to middle England abandoning w/c concerns in the process.

 

[killer b]

So as usual on the Urban politics board the dissenting voices have been shouted down . Meanwhile out in the rest of the country Corbyn is still regarded as an ineffective idealist.
None of the people I've talked to about him since Friday think he is a good Labour leader. And these are people who hate the Tories and everything they do.

You'd probably dismiss their views, calling them traitors or lickspittles. But they are the people Labour needs to connect with again if it is going to get back into power and prevent the Tories causing more shite.

I think there's just been a range of opinions hasn't there? I missed the shouting down and the denouncing, when did that happen?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

None of the people I've talked to about him since Friday think he is a good Labour leader. And these are people who hate the Tories and everything they do.

Lib Dem voters then?

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Have you not been paying attention?

One of the reasons were in this mess is the retreat of Labour to middle England abandoning w/c concerns in the process.

Yes agreed & in normal times I would be fully behind Jeremy & I was until about now but would you not agree that it is important that there is some sort electable Labour government in waiting in place? Another Tory government & the only direction is right. At least if a Labour government is elected then then forces can work from within to direct it left.

 

[Sue]

Yes agreed & in normal times I would be fully behind Jeremy & I was until about now but would you not agree that it is important that there is some sort electable Labour government in waiting in place? Another Tory government & the only direction is right. At least if a Labour government is elected then then forces can work from within to direct it left.

Who as leader do you think would make Labour more electable?

 

[heinous seamus]

I'm surprised that gobshite Blair hasn't piped up yet. The cunt.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Who as leader do you think would make Labour more electable?

I agree that is a problem but it needs addressing very quickly which is what I am pointing out. What you have now in the party is stalemate. It would be good if Corbyn could rally support behind him. If he achieves that then all good but however this is done there needs to be a united group of all Labour MPs ready for the next general Election that could well be before the end of the year. A party in conflict is not electable. This is about the art of the possible.

 

[Red Cat]

So as usual on the Urban politics board the dissenting voices have been shouted down . Meanwhile out in the rest of the country Corbyn is still regarded as an ineffective idealist.
None of the people I've talked to about him since Friday think he is a good Labour leader. And these are people who hate the Tories and everything they do.

You'd probably dismiss their views, calling them traitors or lickspittles. But they are the people Labour needs to connect with again if it is going to get back into power and prevent the Tories causing more shite.

But this just isn't true! This thread is remarkable, I think, for its openess, its don't knowness, and there's range of views about Corbyn. Mine, for example, is very much influenced by an interest in group dynamics; I'm really impressed by his ability to think under that kind of personal and political attack. I don't suppose this is in the forefront of most people's thinking on this thread.

For the same reason, I'm really interested in this idea of a leader as a kind of magical solution.

 

[killer b]

I'm surprised that gobshite Blair hasn't piped up yet. The cunt.

He did on Friday didn't he?

 

[stethoscope]

At least if a Labour government is elected then then forces can work from within to direct it left.

It can't now. Even supporting Corbyn's democratic socialism is now seen predominately as making someone 'hard left'. If ordinary members who came to/back to the party because of Corbyn trying to move it leftwards aren't able to do so, the PLP certainly won't.

 

[Sue]

Mat Wrack on R4 just now pointing out that Margaret Hodge couldn't deliver a remain vote in her own backyard.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Mat Wrack on R4 just now pointing out that Margaret Hodge couldn't deliver a remain vote in her own backyard.

Tell him he's forty pages late

 

[co-op]

Who as leader do you think would make Labour more electable?

This is it really. Even if you buy the mainstream narrative that this is all about needing a charismatic leader, the Blairites just don't have one.

They have the opposite, all their top people are either blatant dummies like Benn, rampaging egoists like Kendall or blander than bland - eg Cooper. None of them looks remotely like a Second Coming of St Tony.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

It can't now. Even supporting Corbyn's democratic socialism is now seen predominately as making someone 'hard left'. If ordinary members who came to/back to the party because of Corbyn wanting to move it leftwards aren't able to do so, the PLP certainly won't.

Well ok. So the only alternative is a Tory government? Before last GE those on here who suggested vote Labour as least worst option were shouted down but as it turns out that would have been least worst option because if we had ended up with a coalition there would have been no EU referendum.

However I would say that as things have turned out there is an opportunity for the left but that cannot happen unless some sort of Labour government can be elected. Thats all I have ever said really. Has anybody got any better idea of how to get a socialist government established eventually? Any next Tory government will only go to the right.

 

[killer b]

They must surely realise there's no interest in the party for a full blooded blairite: some sort of soft left unity candidate will be what they're going for. Although again, I can't see anyone standing out from the pack.

I read yesterday there's three separate plots going on (presumably with three possible leaders - that's going to work isn't it?)

 

[DaveCinzano]

I read yesterday there's three separate plots going on (presumably with three possible leaders - that's going to work isn't it?)

They could call it... the Cunta?

 

[crossthebreeze]

So as usual on the Urban politics board the dissenting voices have been shouted down . Meanwhile out in the rest of the country Corbyn is still regarded as an ineffective idealist.
None of the people I've talked to about him since Friday think he is a good Labour leader. And these are people who hate the Tories and everything they do.

You'd probably dismiss their views, calling them traitors or lickspittles. But they are the people Labour needs to connect with again if it is going to get back into power and prevent the Tories causing more shite.

I talked to a few labour members/voters yesterday, most of whom don't describe to full-on corbyn-mania, some of whom are very critical of him, but they were all furious about this. Its the contempt they are showing their members and voters and the rest of the country - the feeling is that this is the worst time this could have happened, that the plotters haven't even resigned all together - but are trying to cause maximum uncertainty and disruption and keep this dominating the news, and that the plotters haven't presented a clear programme (ie they aren't doing much to get Labour members on their side).

I don't think this has been a bad discussion on here, especially after the first page or two. Someone got a bit of stick because they're mates with a minister who resigned, because their voting record on welfare does not make them the decent person that it was claimed. I think there have been a range of views about Corbyn on here.

 

[BigTom]

"Debbie Abrahams - shadow work and pension secretary"

Anyone know anything about her, apart from wikipedia

Got the time to look at her voting record - good on benefits

How Debbie Abrahams voted on Welfare and Benefits #

• Almost always voted against reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax")Show votes
• Consistently voted for raising welfare benefits at least in line with pricesShow votes
• Consistently voted for paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disabilityShow votes
• Almost always voted against making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such supportShow votes
• Almost always voted against a reduction in spending on welfare benefitsShow votes
• Almost always voted for spending public money to create guaranteed jobs for young peoplewho have spent a long time unemployed

A quick look at the detail says when she didn't vote against reductions she was absent from the vote.
She did vote to replace trident though.

TheyWorkForYou

 

[mauvais]

I read yesterday there's three separate plots going on (presumably with three possible leaders - that's going to work isn't it?)

Cool, like Cerberus, if Cerberus had no heads, three arses and let people pass freely into and out of Hell because it was preoccupied trying to bite itself. With its arses.

 

[phildwyer]

At least if a Labour government is elected then then forces can work from within to direct it left.

Didn't work too well with Blair did it?

Give me open and declared Tories rather than disguised Tories, any day.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Didn't work too well with Blair did it?

Give me open and declared Tories rather than disguised Tories, any day.

Yes but that still gives us worse government. I'm sure few on here would prefer a Tory government if they cannot get the Labour government they want? Although I recall in the 70s some anarchists wanted a right wing government elected because they believed political chaos could breed revolution. That's you, isn't it?

 

[cantsin]

Yes agreed & in normal times I would be fully behind Jeremy & I was until about now but would you not agree that it is important that there is some sort electable Labour government in waiting in place? Another Tory government & the only direction is right. At least if a Labour government is elected then then forces can work from within to direct it left.

as Sunshine Anderson put, "heard it all before".... too,too many times.There's always a good reason people shld just put up with slightly less shite than Tory Nu labs ( ""New Realists" as they once were ), and all it leads to , ever , is more of the same.