Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Rob Ray]

I don't know, but I imagine there could be some sort of contest.

Does no one think that the left side might be a lot stronger with a decent leader?

What on earth does he even believe in? How would he relate to the armed forces, or business, or potential voters who don't share his views.

Careerist maverick.

WHO? Don't just throw fucking insults around, they're utterly meaningless if you have no alternative. Put your candidate up. If you can't, then what are you good for? What point is there in ousting a fucking donkey if all you have to replace it is fresh air? Or worse, fresh Blair?

Have the courage of your convictions, if you have opinion enough to want the man out then you can damn well have one what should happen next, otherwise all you're doing is letting Hilary Benn lead you around by the nose and calling it a bespoke "leftie" position.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

There's no mechanism to deselect at this point in a parliament.

what would the mechanism be if a general election was called in a bit of a hurry? or is it somehow too late now if there is a snap election?

 

[killer b]

what would the mechanism be if a general election was called in a bit of a hurry? or is it somehow too late now if there is a snap election?

If an election is called early the sitting mp is automatically selected. I posted the relevant section of the party rules upthread somewhere, have a search. I'm fairly sure jumping now is partly precipitated by the opportunity a snap election affords them to avoid revenge deselections..

 

[butchersapron]

It has to be total war now doesn't it? Or give up the 110 years history and tradition of the party.

 

[ska invita]

Ha just saw the mirror headline. Fuck me what a bunch of cunts eh? Uneblievable, I don't really recall a level of cuntitude quite like this.

Havent seen the headline yet but The Mirror are as bad as The Sun and the rest - utter utter cunts the lot of them. Dont want to go into details but they did a smear on a friend of mine recently that was as gutter journalism as its possible to be, totally uncalled for and heartbereaking for my friend and his family. Run by Labour PLP press corp - dont get on the wrong side of them. Scum all the way down

 

[Wilf]

He's not a dictator, he can't just clap his hands and change party structures. Nor could he "build politics outside Westminster" on his own in nine months. That bit was down to the likes of Momentum, and it's a project that'd take years at least to overturn the ingrained alienation and cynicism of communities New Labour treated like scum for decades, if it's possible at all.

Seriously I wonder at the political nous of people who seem to have thought putting "the right guy" in charge would change everything lickety split. This isn't magic ffs it's politics, if you want to build a sustainable mass movement it's the same neverending slog as in any other form of organising. There are no shortcuts.

Okay, that was lazy saying 'he' should have done those things, slackness because today has been about him and what he will do to respond. I've posted several times on here about the whole project, him, his leading acolytes and, most of all, the 'left' in the constituencies (whether they be old or new joiners). Also, for clarification, I'm not someone who thought putting 'the right guy' in was the answer - I'm not even involved in parliamentary politics. For me its just a case of wondering what these people thought their project was: was it just warmed up social democratic sick or was it something more creative (the former, emphatically) - and how did they think it was to be consolidated in the party - never mind whether they had an active strategy for reviving working class politics (or even just winning elections).

 

[YouSir]

It has to be total war now doesn't it? Or give up the 110 years history and tradition of the party.

Has to be a split I reckon. Sooner the better. Chance to reclaim something won't come again and the sides will never be as clear or as certain.

 

[butchersapron]

Has to be a split I reckon. Sooner the better. Chance to reclaim something won't come again and the sides will never be as clear or as certain.

Doesn't have to be a split - depends how the other lot react to a corbyn counter-attack and consequent defeat. Might be a split, should be a purge. Should have done it early 2016.

 

[ska invita]

Has to be a split I reckon. Sooner the better. Chance to reclaim something won't come again and the sides will never be as clear or as certain.

The thing about a split is the side that doesnt win the Labour franchise has a massive disadvantage.

 

[butchersapron]

The thing about a split is the side that doesnt win the Labour franchise has a massive disadvantage.

You don't need a labour franchise, you jut do it - the other lot would be doing there best to get away from that.

 

[YouSir]

Doesn't have to be a split - depends how the other lot react to a corbyn counter-attack and consequent defeat. Might be a split, should be a purge. Should have done it early 2016.

Purge would be better but given the organization I reckon they've got a fallback plan to create a Progress party or something. Mind you, might be giving them too much credit.

 

[butchersapron]

Purge would be better but given the organization I reckon they've got a fallback plan to create a Progress party or something. Mind you, might be giving them too much credit.

They've been really incompetent and reliant on media management thus far.

 

[killer b]

It's the last roll of the dice for the Labour left: they'll never get another run at it. I don't think the labour right really understood this, and thought he'd step down given enough pressure - but he won't and now what?

 

[YouSir]

The thing about a split is the side that doesnt win the Labour franchise has a massive disadvantage.

Corbyn's already won it if he holds firm, I think. Would take some real dodgy shit to get rid of him against the members, which isn't beyond them but they're not exactly geniuses.

 

[YouSir]

They've been really incompetent and reliant on media management thus far.

We shall see. Tbh honest I'm stuck between their obvious stupidity and not believing anyone would be that inept.

 

[Mr Moose]

WHO? Don't just throw fucking insults around, they're utterly meaningless if you have no alternative. Put your candidate up. If you can't, then what are you good for? What point is there in ousting a fucking donkey if all you have to replace it is fresh air? Or worse, fresh Blair?

Have the courage of your convictions, if you have opinion enough to want the man out then you can damn well have one what should happen next, otherwise all you're doing is letting Hilary Benn lead you around by the nose and calling it a bespoke "leftie" position.

My position of not knowing who has that rare combination that can lead both the Party and outside of it makes a lot more sense than you backing someone who plainly can't just because you feel it may be a bit of a blow. He's a loser, can't even look like a winner when the Tories are in trouble. Worse still he is vain.

I don't support Hilary and I don't support Corbyn now. He wasn't loyal in the referendum. He doesn't get mine. He's got no game.

 

[ska invita]

You don't need a labour franchise, you jut do it - the other lot would be doing there best to get away from that.

Labour is a name, a history and a financial structure and means... its that much harder starting from scratch. Though not impossible of course.

 

[butchersapron]

It's the last roll of the dice for the Labour left: they'll never get another run at it. I don't think the labour right really understood this, and thought he'd step down given enough pressure - but he won't and now what?

They don't get that corbyn gets this - they think he's just a new media thing to be taken down. I really despise corbyn, he's the sort of left i hate but i hope he takes them to the cleaners or takes the ship down fighting.

 

[butchersapron]

Labour is a name, a history and a financial structure and means... its that much harder starting from scratch. Though not impossible of course.

That's not what franchise means in political talk.

 

[YouSir]

On a side note I wish the SWP would stop it with their placard shit, doubt they had a dozen people there tonight but their name was all over. Proper red flags are far better.

 

[killer b]

They don't get that corbyn gets this - they think he's just a new media thing to be taken down. I really despise corbyn, he's the sort of left i hate but i hope he takes them to the cleaners or takes the ship down fighting.

I'm struggling to see what his options are now tbh. How can he take them to the cleaners?

 

[ska invita]

It's the last roll of the dice for the Labour left: they'll never get another run at it. I don't think the labour right really understood this, and thought he'd step down given enough pressure - but he won't and now what?

Whats so frustrating is that Corbyn, as an old school Labour anti-EU stalwart, is probably the single best person in the labour party to deal with this Brexit situation. The stars aligned to put him in this position, the polls were going increasingly in his favour, the tories are in somewhat of a mess (not messy enough though) - the fact the blairites stepped in like this at this moment couldnt be more wrong footed. Yeah, its the last chance saloon. If Iceland can do it so can Corbyn !!!

 

[YouSir]

I'm struggling to see what his options are now tbh. How can he take them to the cleaners?

Surviving. All the blatant traitors will be spent efforts waiting for marginalization, defection, expulsion or deselection once he wards off the challenge. Certainly can't circle back for another try, not under their own names at least.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm struggling to see what his options are now tbh. How can he take them to the cleaners?

Win the coming leadership election. Take away every single privilege that being a labour MP takes. Extraordinary conference immediately to enact measures to expel them from the party. Or at least let this be known and then see what who chooses what sides in private. If they want to go independent let them. See what happens. As you said, last throw of the dice.

 

[Duncan2]

God the Tories will be loving this.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Win the coming leadership election. Take away every single privilege that being a labour MP takes. Extraordinary conference immediately to enact measures to expel them from the party. Or at least let this be known and then see what who chooses what sides in private. If they want to go independent let them. See what happens. As you said, last throw of the dice.

Yeah very much this. I really want him to show some teeth now and nail these pricks to the wall. He should've done it sooner. Can't help thinking McDonnell would've done it straight away and he probably would've enjoyed it too.

 

[YouSir]

God the Tories will be loving this.

Would be better off sharpening their own knives. Media may not care as much but there'll be plenty of savagery there.

 

[Duncan2]

Good.

 

[Rob Ray]

My position of not knowing who has that rare combination that can lead both the Party and outside of it makes a lot more sense than you backing someone who plainly can't just because you feel it may be a bit of a blow. He's a loser, can't even look like a winner when the Tories are in trouble. Worse still he is vain.

I don't support Hilary and I don't support Corbyn now. He wasn't loyal in the referendum. He doesn't get mine. He's got no game.

I'm not backing him though, In fact I've said on regular occasions I thought the PLP would wipe him out before now, that his politics are just warmed-up Keynesianism etc. I'm mostly in this for the entertainment value.

The difference here is I can see a car-crash when it's on its way, in which a PLP full of arrogant political wonks take down their most popular member in favour of exactly the sort of liberal Westminster bean everyone hates. And they'll do so in a poisonous manner that'll lose them the unions, the remainder of the active membership and quite probably the next two to three elections, while also essentially killing off the last remnants of left influence (because let's be clear about this, if they win now, a left-wing candidate will never happen again).

You on the other hand have nothing other than laughable characterisations of someone you've clearly never met, designed to make you feel better about backing an anti-democratic coup against the only left-winger you'll ever see in charge of Labour. You have no plan, no alternative, you've not bothered to analyse the consequences, all you have are boring, contentless appraisals of his motivations and capabilities. And that I find irritating. Why get worked up about Jeremy failing the left if all you want is for the Labour right to sort everything out for you while you merrily avoid having any original thoughts of your own or involving yourself in any concrete way? What's the point?

 

[YouSir]

I'm not backing him though, In fact I've said on regular occasions I thought the PLP would wipe him out before now, that his politics are just warmed-up Keynesianism etc. I'm mostly in this for the entertainment value.

The difference here is I can see a car-crash when it's on its way, in which a PLP full of arrogant political wonks take down their most popular member in favour of exactly the sort of liberal Westminster bean everyone hates. And they'll do so in a poisonous manner that'll lose them the unions, the remainder of the active membership and quite probably the next two to three elections, while also essentially killing off the last remnants of left influence (because let's be clear about this, if they win now, a left-wing candidate will never happen again).

You on the other hand have nothing other than laughable characterisations of someone you've clearly never met, designed to make you feel better about backing an anti-democratic coup against the only left-winger you'll ever see in charge of Labour. You have no plan, no alternative, you've not bothered to analyse the consequences, all you have are boring, contentless appraisals of his motivations and capabilities. And that I find irritating. Why get worked up about Jeremy failing the left if all you want is for the Labour right to sort everything out for you while you merrily avoid having any original thoughts of your own or involving yourself in any concrete way? What's the point?

Are you a member?