It's the type of thing that gets likes and upvotes from progressive Corbynista types even if they don't produce it themselves. I haven't been paying much attention to what Labourites have been saying until this past year, but my impression is that there are some dark traditions within the Labour Party that have been awoken or have returned after the Blair/Brown/Miliband years. I don't think it's a new fangled thing. It's an older generation finding an audience with a younger generation. That comment comes with the caveat that I only have a small sample to go on. But it's certainly not just a bunch of trolls. (I don't think Livingstone's or Walker's comments are part of this though, they're more just general provocation, the nationalist bite isn't there.)
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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It's the type of thing that gets likes and upvotes from progressive Corbynista types even if they don't produce it themselves. I haven't been paying much attention to what Labourites have been saying until this past year, but my impression is that there are some dark traditions within the Labour Party that have been awoken or have returned after the Blair/Brown/Miliband years. I don't think it's a new fangled thing. It's an older generation finding an audience with a younger generation. That comment comes with the caveat that I only have a small sample to go on. But it's certainly not just a bunch of trolls. (I don't think Livingstone's or Walker's comments are part of this though, they're more just general provocation, the nationalist bite isn't there.)
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
She lacks the self-awareness to realise that The Matrix she talks about is the one her and her fellow hacks have been constructing for the last year.
not a trot
Well-Known Member
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What do you mean by causing tension? And between who and who?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What factions? Factions within momentum?
If Seumas Milne leaves Jeremy Corbyn, he'll do it on his own terms
Lots of rumours Seumas Milne is to quit
Lots of rumours Seumas Milne is to quit
yes, but lots of arguing by others about Livingstone, Walker, Palestine, why does this happen?
btw, this is without the SWP, so this time they can't be blamed!
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Is that the entire "Jackie Walker incident?" Christ, those delegates are so ready for a rumble they could be urbanites.At face value, Walker's comments appear a little uninformed, but to characterise them as anti-semitic is a bizarre distortion....unless those saying so believe that the HMDT are themselves operating to an anti-semitic agenda.
billy_bob
Air of bewilderment model's own
It's a fucking membership organisation.
This is the fundamental problem with the non-Corbyn supporting wing's ire, to me: 'Oh, he's saying we have to accept the decision of the members, is he? Bloody Stalinist!'
But how can you possibly argue that that isn't exactly what should be happening in a democratic membership organisation? It's the other side who hijacked the thing for their own ends - and it's only possible for anyone to see their current outrage as reasonable and understandable as a result of the fact they've had free rein with the party for so long that they think it's their fucking birthright denied if anyone disputes their right to take it in any direction they see fit, regardless of what the bulk of the people their organisation consists of and exists for think.
I'm not particularly a cheerleader for JC - you'll see that from my previous posts if you care to. But I can't see any evidence that suggests he's done something undemocratic here, as you're implying. Or that suggests he'd be likely to not 'accept the decision of the electorate at the next election' (how exactly he could do that is something you might like to clarify) if they rejected him.
I can understand that, some time back, the Blairites etc. might have believed that this was all a matter of crushing some annoying hard-left flare-up and getting on with the business of being in charge as usual. But I can't understand how they can't see, now, that it's gone irretrievably beyond that. None of this, of course, proves that Corbyn will be electable or elected, but the other lot have already proven they no longer are. Why they don't all fuck off and set up profitable management consultancy firms instead is beyond me.
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AnandLeo
Tipple Ripple
After hearing the conference speech of the re-elected leader of the Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn, I am confounded to see a discord with his socio-political agenda and Labour values, and at a loss to see what is the disharmony between his leadership and the Labour party mainly represented by Labour MPs. Of course the party conference speech is rhetoric. Whether the Labour Party can win the next general election is more of a result of the performance of the Conservative Party under the leadership of Theresa May, taking into account the result of negotiations of Brexit with EU.
I like to elaborate on my post.
Jeremy Corbyn delivered a note on socialist agenda which is congruent with Labour values in contrast to capitalist manifesto. Tony Blair came into power with a landslide victory in 1997 on a capitalist manifesto of the brand of New Labour which is unprecedented in the history of Labour Party. The global economic climate was salubrious during the New Labour rule, it was capitalism under a socialist regime. New Labour’s capitalist agenda was ideal for the economic and social climate of the day and trends, until the calamity of banking crisis which propagated in the USA. If the Jeremy Corbyn manages to calm and unite his political fraternity, the socialism under his leadership will be blessed by the trade unions which makes no difference in a general election, because traditionally trade unions support the Labour Party. The remaining question is, will the rest of the country buy the rhetoric of Corbyn’s socialism.
I like to elaborate on my post.
Jeremy Corbyn delivered a note on socialist agenda which is congruent with Labour values in contrast to capitalist manifesto. Tony Blair came into power with a landslide victory in 1997 on a capitalist manifesto of the brand of New Labour which is unprecedented in the history of Labour Party. The global economic climate was salubrious during the New Labour rule, it was capitalism under a socialist regime. New Labour’s capitalist agenda was ideal for the economic and social climate of the day and trends, until the calamity of banking crisis which propagated in the USA. If the Jeremy Corbyn manages to calm and unite his political fraternity, the socialism under his leadership will be blessed by the trade unions which makes no difference in a general election, because traditionally trade unions support the Labour Party. The remaining question is, will the rest of the country buy the rhetoric of Corbyn’s socialism.
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billy_bob
Air of bewilderment model's own
I don't think it is about 'clash of values', is it? It's about some factions wanting to keep 'values' out of it altogether so they can more easily carry on merely swapping managerial responsibility between themselves and the Tories every couple of elections.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
i think a very sizable part of it is - in addition to what you've said - simple outrage at rampant hypocracy.
i hold no torch for the anti-Corbyn PLP, a bunch of more useless, less-inspiring people you couldn't hope to meet - but when, for example, Blair got 13 million votes in 1997, did Corbyn, McDonnell or Abbot etc say 'oh well, Blair has a massive mandate - what he espouses goes against our principles but the mandate is so overwhelming that we should put our personal views aside and support his programme..'?
no, they didn't, they kept banging away because they also had a mandate - so the current PLP take the view that if Corbyn et al weren't persuaded by Blairs' 13 million, why should they give a shit about Corbyns 300,000?
its a complete gangfuck, and whatever fudge tries to paper over the cracks simply can't last - firstly because the 'top' of the Labour party is irrevocably, genuinely and passionately split on the issues that are at the very heart of what people believe to be morally right (on all sides), and secondly because of the deeply personal, poisonous atmostphere within it - and the loathing, dispising and utter contempt goes in all directions, its not something that can be put aside or ascribed to one faction.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I wasn't aware that 13 million people lived in Sedgefield.
That's what happens when you leave immigration unchecked for all these years.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
At face value, Walker's comments appear a little uninformed, but to characterise them as anti-semitic is a bizarre distortion....unless those saying so believe that the HMDT are themselves operating to an anti-semitic agenda.
The accusation is that she ignorantly suggested it was a Jewish only event with the implication being that Jewish people do not recognise the importance of other genocides. She then didn't help matters by tweeting all holocaust denial is acceptable before correcting that mistakes happen on car journeys nor by questioning why Jewish schools need protection. According to reports I add.
I think the Labour anti-semitism problem is well overstated but if she wants to help the Party she just needs to zip it up.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is it. A perfectly normal disagreement at a meeting. Have none of these people ever actually been at meetings where debate and discussion happens? The later tweet - not the mistake one - suggests she still does not accept that this is the basis in reality (despite being formally so) for the HMD.
Every single meeting about any related issues is now going to filmed/recorded - so this nonsense is going to carry on. People like Walker are never going to 'zip it'. That's exactly not what they're about.
Every single meeting about any related issues is now going to filmed/recorded - so this nonsense is going to carry on. People like Walker are never going to 'zip it'. That's exactly not what they're about.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
You are right that there needs to be space for debate and that means not everything said can be 100% right on first time. Unfortunately her tone seems argumentative on the point to the point of unsoundness.
And that is the milieu of the moment. Everyone is under scrutiny so good behaviour from left and right is demanded. The leader expects it to be so.
bimble
floofy
Walker says 3 things in that clip:
1. She's never heard "a definition of antisemitism that she can work with".
2. Wouldn't it be great if the Jews stopped hogging Holocaust day.
3. If jews have security at al their community buildings that's not because of any legitimate fear they might feel about being attacked for being jews because look even her grandsons nursery has security.
What is the point she is making here ? At a meeting billed as 'Confronting antisemitism and engaging Jewish voters' ?
Like Livingstone, she might not be a bona fide antisemite but definitely comes across to me as a silly shit stirrer intent on making things worse every time she opens her mouth on the subject.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I'm not particularly interested in debating the content of her views. My point is that is what political disagreement at a meeting looks like and that reporting it as some massive bust up is performative neutrality at its best.
But as regards point 3, Walker is Jewish I believe.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Did McDonnell, Corbyn and Abbott collude with the media to try to overthrow Blair, say negative (and often false) things about him as often as possible, make grand public resignations, etc, etc? No. Not quite the same, is it?
bimble
floofy
The headlines about Rage and Fury are hyperbolic nonsense that's true.
She has talked a lot about having jewish ancestry yes, she included them in her recent statements about how jews were the major financiers of the slave trade. But that's not relevant to what she's doing in that clip, where she says that all schools have security now, there's no reason for jews to feel they need more of it than the next person etc.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
I think it's worse than that - this has been billed as a training session. Now my expectation is that what happens in a training event stays in the room. The idea that anything you say can be recorded and distributed publicly is a breach of trust and will ensure that people aren't honest and open about their views.
But all seems fair in the rush to attack the left.
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