Is there a reason for the riots?
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dylans
overlord of all acorns
I don't know. I thought he came across as an unbelievably smug and self righteous twat. If that was the purpose of his post, he succeeded very well.You need to put more effort into projecting yourself as smug and self-righteous. This current effort is under par.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Nice try,, but we both know that you're the one with several years' worth of smugness trophies on the mantlepiece, not me.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Nah, it's not up to snuff with some of his other ego-stroking gnomic utterances, believe me.
So you're defending propaganda by saying that everything is propaganda?
It's not. That would suggest a pre-defined opinion and agenda.
Not everyone has one of those... some people are genuinely interested in the reasons for the riots. All the reasons... not just selected links and quotes from barely relevant examples.
I enjoyed reading the discussions... where people posts their own opinions... that's why I have read this thread and left others alone for the folk who like to trawl the net for links that back them up and share them.
I dispute that cutting and pasting part of an article and a link constitutes 'content'.
Nah, it's not up to snuff with some of his other ego-stroking gnomic utterances, believe me.
Ego stroking?
How so?
You're making the classic mistake of assuming that... because I think you're a dick, I must think I'm not.
That's not true. I am too.. only much less so.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
So you're defending propaganda by saying that everything is propaganda?
It's not. That would suggest a pre-defined opinion and agenda.
Not everyone has one of those... some people are genuinely interested in the reasons for the riots. All the reasons... not just selected links and quotes from barely relevant examples.
I enjoyed reading the discussions... where people posts their own opinions... that's why I have read this thread and left others alone for the folk who like to trawl the net for links that back them up and share them.
I dispute that cutting and pasting part of an article and a link constitutes 'content'.
No. i'm suggesting that you are using the term propaganda as a term of abuse to smear anything you don't agree with and that you are doing so because you are fucking idiot.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so you're somewhat lacking in the trouser department i suppose.
Treacle Toes
Time
So back on topic:
Not the most sophisticated documentary style but does a good job of joining the dots! Education for those who think these issues are not their own and/or have not managed to make the links themselves.
Not the most sophisticated documentary style but does a good job of joining the dots! Education for those who think these issues are not their own and/or have not managed to make the links themselves.
Whatever gives you the impression that I don't agree with some of it? There's much I agree with and much that is obvious. That doesn't stop it from being propaganda. There are other angles and perspectives that get sidelined when that's all it becomes.
You have the unsubtle opinions of a simpleton. Get some better ones.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So you're defending propaganda by saying that everything is propaganda?
In the final analysis, nothing being truly neutral, everything will incorporate some degree of propaganda, wittingly or unwittingly.
It's whether it is witting or unwitting that's important, IMO.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
If it's CoR, "expert speakers" are bound to be the usual glammy-left 'great and good', parachuted in; not one of the names on that list has any grassroots track record in tottenham itself. I know of NO 'concerned tottenham residents' connected with that meeting, and a quick vox pop yesterday met with a collective 'you what? never heard of this'.
The ONLy people who can genuinely claim to be represntative in the way CoR are claiming are HSG, HAPS, the local TUs, bodies like SHYC and Friends Of the Parks, and the local greens, as they are the ones who've done the local activism (you can possibly include the SP in there as well).
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
There is a striking lack of overlap between the listed speakers for that meeting and the organisers of the Unity March on Saturday, (which included HSG) although I think BARAC were invited.
Perhaps it's because everything has been organised at such short notice. (Cough)
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Your use of the term "propaganda" in order to undermine the validity of an argument is merely a way of avoiding criticising its content. Indeed, you claim to agree with some of its content. if you had accused me of holding an ideological standpoint I would agree with you, I do and that standpoint is explicit in all my posts What is the difference between posting an opinion, drawing attention to an article or opinion piece by someone I agree with and posting "propaganda"? I would suggest the difference is in presentation of an argument or opinion. A political polemic becomes propaganda when it's ideological source (you would say bias) is hidden or when such an argument is presented as "factual" or somehow "neutral" and it's ideological basis is denied. I make no such claim to neutrality, indeed I have argued that the very claim of "neutrality" itself masks its ideological agenda and is therefore far closer to what you claim to be propaganda.
But of course, you are not interested in any of this are you? Because you are not really claiming that I have hidden my ideological position, you simply object to me posting one. As for your objection to my linking to an article. I was simply drawing peoples attention to an article that I agreed with and considered worthy of people reading. Are you really claiming that this is invalid? I have made no claim that the Klein article in question is anything but an opinion piece. So be consistant at least, If your objection is not to the content of the article I quoted but to the fact that I quoted an article at all, then you should object to any poster linking to or quoting any source whatsoever. This is the logic of your argument. You object to any poster drawing attention to any article whatsoever, including news reports (which after all are no less ideological in their perspectives) If we were to follow your logic that would reduce this forum to a list of unsubstantiated, "personal opinions" along the lines of " I think". Is this what you really want? There are indeed other angles and perspectives, and you are free to post them and link to articles that put them forward. I see no reason why I am obliged to do so just to attempt some non existant neutrality or to avoid the spurious and frankly meaningless label of "propaganda" by an idiot who clearly doesn't understand what the word means.
Treacle Toes
Time
Why not organise something yourself then? It has been organised at short notice following the march last Saturday. There is also an open mic part as there was at the end of the march last Saturday. Many people spoke, why not come down yourself and speak?
Just because you don't know of any Tottenham residents connected with the meeting doesn't mean there won't be any there.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I have been, and always do; however, I no longer work in LB Haringey, so I work with the equivalent organisations in LB waltham forest (i.e. WFACU and the local KONP).
WRT this meeting, I - like many others - are wary of having anything to do with CoR, since it's redolent of the same 'usual suspects' top-downism that ended so badly with STWC and WESPECK. I mean, Lee bloody jasper....
Unfortunately, my nieces are over from Argentina atm, for their once-a-year visit, so I've spent as much time as poss with them, and so I missed the march. had it been any other time, i'd've been there straight away on Saturday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHzOG4mJ0PA
Can't believe how apposite this song/video is still, Matt johnson, The The
Come back Matt, we need your voice...
Can't believe how apposite this song/video is still, Matt johnson, The The
Come back Matt, we need your voice...
Treacle Toes
Time
The problem as I see it is people letting their personal dislikes of individuals and organisations get in the way of supporting or attending things that have similar aims. If folk don't like the approach of CoR, they should attend and make suggestions as to how it can become more representative and inclusive. I did to the organisers of the march on Saturday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog
'Rise up and take the power back, it's time that
The fat cats had a heart attack, you know that
Their time is coming to an end
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious'
Btw, won't Muse be in trouble if they sing 'Uprising'
'Rise up and take the power back, it's time that
The fat cats had a heart attack, you know that
Their time is coming to an end
We have to unify and watch our flag ascend
They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious'
Btw, won't Muse be in trouble if they sing 'Uprising'
Do you seriously think an unsophisticated documentary that joins no dots whatsoever is what is required or would you prefer to patronise those whom you deem unable to do so ? As Darcus Howe said 'please have a little respect'
Treacle Toes
Time
Eh? Respect for whom?
I posted that doc because I think it is worth watching. Where's your contribution to relevant info?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
broadly I agree, but there is a problem that so many of us felt so utterly shafted by the swappies over STWC, that their heavy involvement in CoR makes us wonder 'oh gawd, here we go again, is it really worth it?' But yes, I prolly will attend future events of theirs and TUSC, as it is -n as you say - better to get involved than whinge on the sidelines
My contribution and your respect are very much at odds in that my contribution are my humble posts and experience of life and your relevent info is nothing a sentient being does not already know.
I could and often do cry when I see my children and the children I work with being patronised by systematic robots such as yourself thank you.
Relevent info .. you think these young kids being fast tracked into prison are going to seek out your relevent info ?
I sincerely doubt it Rutita1
I could and often do cry when I see my children and the children I work with being patronised by systematic robots such as yourself thank you.
Relevent info .. you think these young kids being fast tracked into prison are going to seek out your relevent info ?
I sincerely doubt it Rutita1
Treacle Toes
Time
For a start I am not patronising you or your children. Why do you think I am?
There are people who do not know, some refuse to accept what is going on, why you think I included you in that I have no clue.
You calling me a systematic robot cleary tells me you know nothing about who I am, what I do, where I'm coming from or more importantly, what my contribution has been to this thread.
I have a very clear radar when it comes to being patronised thank you very much. I also know bullshit when I read it. You know nothing about me either and you obviously have no idea regarding the future as to what to tell our children re these riots.
I have scant inclination to read all your postings on this thread to find out who you are, what it is about you, your credentials etc
Maybe you'd care to share them with the community ? If you already have done I apologise but frankly I cannot help but ask 'who the hell do you think you are'?
I have scant inclination to read all your postings on this thread to find out who you are, what it is about you, your credentials etc
Maybe you'd care to share them with the community ? If you already have done I apologise but frankly I cannot help but ask 'who the hell do you think you are'?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
seriously, wtf are you ON? rutita hasn't been patronising at all - your comments are frankly bizarre
Treacle Toes
Time
No, your radar is not clear. Nor was/is your understanding of why I posted that documentary above and my words with it.
So exactly what are you attacking me for then? You haven't read my posts, you have imagined yourself as so kind of 'victim' of mine, and you have no clue whether I do or do not share my skills/ideas/energies with 'the community'
Perhaps you could have asked me who the hell I am and what I meant before launching into an assumption-athon?
My 'credentials', I imagine, to be similar to your own, lived and experienced.
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