Is the High Street doomed

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So retail, a sector where the whole game is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with, is mad because the property sector is playing the exact same game?

Sorry retail, I guess capitalism is just a bitch. Who knew?

Yeah capitalism is shite, but it's what we have. At least high streets offer work and a place for drunks to sit and shout at passers-by.

 

[krink]

drunks to sit and shout at passers-by.

We prefer the term "alcohol-assisted social commentators" thanks.

 

[skyscraper101]

Updating as per...

DIY disaster ends as Homebase sold for £1

Thread here

 

[UrbaneFox]

Updating as per...

DIY disaster ends as Homebase sold for £1

Thread here

Might we see the return of ironmongers and paint shops?

 

[fucthest8]

When 3D printing goes mainstream we'l lose another raft of shops.

Never mind that, James Burke reckons nanotechnology will be the proper nail in the coffin. For EVERYTHING.

BBC Radio 4 - James Burke on the End of Scarcity

 

[Dogsauce]

Might we see the return of ironmongers and paint shops?

Homebase isn’t exactly high street, and one of the reasons for the demise of traditional high street shops.

20 or so years back I used to work during student holidays for a paint company that exclusively supplied independent DIY shops, mostly with specialist paints. The firm wouldn’t sell to the big sheds because the sheds would tell you what to make and how much they would pay for it (usually tight margins), an unbalanced situation of massive corporations vs a family-owned firm with sixty or seventy staff.

I’d quite often hitch a lift back up to university on one of the delivery trucks helping with the drops on the way up to Leeds. I can remember the numerous shops scattered around the midlands and north, YDM, Neville’s etc., all now gone, driven to the ground by Homebase, B&Q and their loss-leading selling (anyone in the decorating game will know these places are only cheap on headline items like white emulsion, loads of stuff is much more pricey than the independents were). The company itself went under about 15 years ago although a bigger brand bought the name.

One thing that’s surprised me since moving to London is that a lot of the independent type hardware stores still survive, which is likely due to population density (in a lot of other towns there are no homes on or near the high street) and the difficulty in travelling to out-of-town retail parks, especially with lower car ownership. Maybe it’s these sort of changes that can save the high street.

 

[Poi E]

The small hardware stores are generally selling the same Chinese made bits and pieces as the larger chains.

As for paints, it's amazing how shit a lot of paint in the UK is, especially considering it's a relatively mild maritime climate without huge amounts of UV or variations in humidity. Johnson's are about the best.

 

[newbie]

istm that most people in the country are lamenting that fings ain't what they used to be while at the same time not buying much stuff anymore, and using white van delivery for what they do buy. Services and experiences are the focus now that we've passed peak stuff. Bricks n mortar shops selling non-perishables are declining into a few fairly tightly defined types selling stuff that people want to fondle before purchase- shoes and clothes for instance or perhaps jewelry- or that they need right now, so eg Screwfix type places.

Some services are increasingly going online too, banks and estate agents for instance. All of which ought to lead to a collapse in rents and provide scope for some imaginative new service/experience ideas, as eg nail bars or pottery painting have done in the last few years.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Homebase is crap IME. Lots of basic stuff they don't have eg plumbing spares, shelf space taken up with nick nacks and ornaments instead.

 

[Plumdaff]

Not that underlying structural problems aren't present, but Homebase was the victim of a takeover by an Australian company Bunnings that completely misunderstood the UK market and fired all the British management who did.

 

[RubyToogood]

Like Northcote Road in Clapham, last time I looked, I thought Lordship Lane was doing ok; numerous coffee shops, small independents Etc. Though I guess Camberell Green area may not be so good.

Lordship Lane has a lot of things like gift shops, clothes shops and posh cheese shops which aren't about competing on price. The kind of thing where people feel it must be better if they're paying a bit more - the local demographic can support that. It also has a ton of coffee shops and restaurants... I guess it's as much about being a social hub as anything. This is very true of where I live. We don't have a lot of useful shops but we have zillions of cafes, pubs and restaurants and more opening all the time.

So retail, a sector where the whole game is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with, is mad because the property sector is playing the exact same game?

In what sector is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with NOT the game?

One thing that’s surprised me since moving to London is that a lot of the independent type hardware stores still survive, which is likely due to population density (in a lot of other towns there are no homes on or near the high street) and the difficulty in travelling to out-of-town retail parks, especially with lower car ownership. Maybe it’s these sort of changes that can save the high street.

There are a couple near me. The alternative is going to Homebase/Bunnings/Homebase in Penge and as I don't have a car I'd rather not. I only ever go there if I'm doing a major project and then I have to do several trips because I can't carry 10 litres of paint and three curtain rails on the bus in one go.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Never mind that, James Burke reckons nanotechnology will be the proper nail in the coffin. For EVERYTHING.

BBC Radio 4 - James Burke on the End of Scarcity

James Burke, or somebody very like him, promised me a flying car and a robot butler so it pays not to believe everything that is predicted.

Like others, I can see agreeable shopping areas with affluent leisure shoppers surviving, but noisy strips of shops on either side of busy roads look increasingly threatened. Which is tough on the less affluent who live near them, can't get to the nice bits, can't afford the prices there anyway, need smaller quantities than are sold online and so on.

Optimistically I can see rents dropping through market forces, young entrepreneurs appearing and cooperative efforts springing up to supply people who can't get to Guildford or Northcote Road. Pessimistically I can see food banks.

 

[lizzieloo]

Like Tesco Direct?

Tesco are getting rid of Tesco direct, they'll just be doing online groceries.

It'll be a blow here cos the (massive) distribution warehouse is here.

 

[lizzieloo]

Tesco shuts its online non-food website, Tesco Direct

This implies things are not rosy for online business as well

*reads thread*

 

[SpookyFrank]

In what sector is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with NOT the game?

This was my point. If you're gonna do capitalism you can't then throw your toys out the pram when others do likewise.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

All these retailers get replaced by others though. As long as there are people tragic and/or stupid enough to consider shopping a recreational activity the high street will be just fine.

No need to sneer. It can be helpful to be able to try clothes on or see if electrical goods suit your needs etc.

 

[hash tag]

James Burke, or somebody very like him, promised me a flying car and a robot butler so it pays not to believe everything that is predicted.

Like others, I can see agreeable shopping areas with affluent leisure shoppers surviving, but noisy strips of shops on either side of busy roads look increasingly threatened. Which is tough on the less affluent who live near them, can't get to the nice bits, can't afford the prices there anyway, need smaller quantities than are sold online and so on.

Optimistically I can see rents dropping through market forces, young entrepreneurs appearing and cooperative efforts springing up to supply people who can't get to Guildford or Northcote Road. Pessimistically I can see food banks.

Flying cars/taxis may still happen thanks to uber and drones.
As for affluent areas keeping going, I am not convinced that's the case, I just think they will be the last to hang on.

 

[tim]

Only fried chicken emporiums and Paddy power in 10 years...

I wouldn't count on that combination surviving.

We'll all be fruitarians in a decade and the nanny state will have introduced a 50p maximum stake on all bets

 

[Poi E]

Homebase is crap IME. Lots of basic stuff they don't have eg plumbing spares, shelf space taken up with nick nacks and ornaments instead.

Hardware stores in the UK are shit.

 

[Dieselpunk2000]

In my neck of the woods-
Hereford has biggest increase in shop closures in region | Hereford Times

 

[Cloo]

Yet again the main problem is...Landlords.

Don't forget business rates as well, they've been a total fucker for retailers of all sizes.

It doesn't help with local small high streets that they don't seem to be designed around modern living. I often think non-essential shops (ie gifts, books, clothes) in local parades would do better to open midday-8pm (which seems to be a thing in the US) rather than 9-5 during the week, and open on Sundays (maybe shutting one weekday instead) because then they could actually catch people on their way home from work/on the weekend and people might actually use them, rather than using Amazon Prime when they want something in a hurry. Honestly, if I had a local shop where I knew I could pick up kids clothes or shoes on a weeknight, I'd have got a lot of use out of it.

But one way or another, a lot of small local shops will have to go, probably to be replaced by housing - we just don't need as much small and local as we once did, but if those that remained actually ran in a way that fits with lifestyles that would help.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Honestly, if I had a local shop where I knew I could pick up kids clothes or shoes on a weeknight, I'd have got a lot of use out of it.

I do have one, Sainsburys, which does help matters.

Business rates are another world of shit, yet councils are desperate for cash so won’t be doing anything soon to sort that out. Tory scum.

 

[hash tag]

Speaking of Sunday opening, I was is Westfield Shephers Bush today. I saw an Entertainer in there, which despite, I guess enormous pressure from the centre, remained firmly closed.
Good for them, I was there was more like them.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Speaking of Sunday opening, I was is Westfield Shephers Bush today. I saw an Entertainer in there, which despite, I guess enormous pressure from the centre, remained firmly closed.
Good for them, I was there was more like them.

Fundie Christian owner.

 

[PursuedByBears]

Yes, religious wackjobs. I refuse to buy anything in their shops.

 

[DotCommunist]

Landlords to fight use of CVAs by retailers seeking rent cuts

“The more it happens, the more other retailers think they should do it and dump 20% of property liabilities for little cost. It’s an opportunistic bandwagon.”

says colliers retail bod with a straight face. lol.

 

[MickiQ]

Landlords to fight use of CVAs by retailers seeking rent cuts


says colliers retail bod with a straight face. lol.

fetch me my violin

 

[ska invita]

GDP growth for q1 in 2018 is 0.1%. that's right on the verge of recession. Its likely Brexit day next year will tip the UK into recession, if not sooner. At least house and rent prices should come down though

 

[hash tag]

I think house prices have already come down in town. At best, they have already stabilised.

 

[xenon]

Don't forget business rates as well, they've been a total fucker for retailers of all sizes.

It doesn't help with local small high streets that they don't seem to be designed around modern living. I often think non-essential shops (ie gifts, books, clothes) in local parades would do better to open midday-8pm (which seems to be a thing in the US) rather than 9-5 during the week, and open on Sundays (maybe shutting one weekday instead) because then they could actually catch people on their way home from work/on the weekend and people might actually use them, rather than using Amazon Prime when they want something in a hurry. Honestly, if I had a local shop where I knew I could pick up kids clothes or shoes on a weeknight, I'd have got a lot of use out of it.

But one way or another, a lot of small local shops will have to go, probably to be replaced by housing - we just don't need as much small and local as we once did, but if those that remained actually ran in a way that fits with lifestyles that would help.

Why don't more shops open 12 - 8 instead of 9 - 5.