Is it worrying that EDL members freedoms are restricted

[butchersapron]

Quite, or what if you went to the recent Lib Dem protest and called Moon23 a cunt etc...

Your idea of how it is wrong and why it is wrong is different from most sane people though. The rest of us don't support civil liberty curtailing economic policies. We actually believe in civil liberties and fight for them. You don't, you attack civil liberties by seeking to dissociate them from society - old school liberals would spit in your face.

 

[LiamO]

Top post

Ooh fuck. Looks like it's not only the magistrate who is setting dangerous precedents. Does that mean I have to join the lib-dems now?

 

[butchersapron]

Ooh fuck. Looks like it's not only the magistrate who is setting dangerous precedents. Does that mean I have to join the lib-dems now?

Do you like them knee caps?

 

[Fruitloop]

You've been signed up automatically. Sorry

 

[ViolentPanda]

Interesting article here from SPIKED

banned from attending or helping to organise any demonstration, meeting or gathering held by his political organisation or even visiting its website for 10 years. In addition, he was banned from travelling by train anywhere in the UK and from entering a mosque, meeting room, school or cultural centre.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10290/

What do people think, obviously the EDL are repulsive but this is draconian punishments being handed down to their members.

He pleaded guilty to a criminal act, one which was underpinned by racism, so while the above ban is indeed draconian, it's also germane to the crime and the potential for re-offending given the person's politics.

He's lucky. A more authoritarian state could have issued some form of control order against him...oh, hold on, wrong skin colour, for a start.

 

[Fruitloop]

I reckon it's the ban on entering mosques that's really gonna kill his social life.

 

[moon23]

You're the one dolling out the hyperbole that this is totalitarian: i.e. we are in a situation where political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life. So what punishment do you think a serial racist offender should face? What punshment do you think would impact on someone who organises and promotes an increasingly overtly racist poltical group, and deter others from following his threatening and abusive example?

Louis MacNeice

You can refer to something being totalitarian in it's nature without e.g. Of, relating to, being, or imposing to total control.

I think judges should have the power to fine, give community sentence or custodial sentence depending on the specifics of the case. I don't think specific orders should be placed to restrict any lawful activity on the basis that it's related to a previous criminal activity.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The EDL want to exercise the freedom to beat muslims up- so they and 'ideologically neutral' spiked can chomp a fat one

TBF, when I was younger, I used to reserve the right to beat Nazi skins and NF or BNP members up.

Then again, I didn't claim to be "defending" England, I just hate fascism and those stupid or twisted enough to support it.

 

[moon23]

Your idea of how it is wrong and why it is wrong is different from most sane people though. The rest of us don't support civil liberty curtailing economic policies. We actually believe in civil liberties and fight for them. You don't, you attack civil liberties by seeking to dissociate them from society - old school liberals would spit in your face.

Yes you do support civil liberty curtailing economic policies, ones in which we have less freedom to choose how we generate and spend wealth. Old school liberals would sit down and talk with me, unlike your abusive and rude self.

 

[butchersapron]

You can refer to something being totalitarian in it's nature without e.g. Of, relating to, being, or imposing to total control.

I think judges should have the power to fine, give community sentence or custodial sentence depending on the specifics of the case. I don't think specific orders should be placed to restrict any lawful activity on the basis that it's related to a previous criminal activity.

No you can't - that sort of the point of the concept. You can't have mild totalitarianism. You paranoid freak

 

[Fruitloop]

How is his punishment different to a custodial sentence? A prisoner is restricted from taking part in otherwise lawful activities due to past criminal activity, for a time-limited period. Are you opposed to custodial sentences too?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Quite, he should have faced some punishment, but curtailing someone's political activity because they make unpleasant comments is totalitarian.

How about curtailing it because they've pleaded guilty to a criminal offence?

In fact, the sentence is a fillip for the EDL member involved.. It will allow him oodles of free publicity for his politics, while also, as seen by your support of him, getting piss-panted liberals in coniptions about how unfair it all is to the poor little love.

 

[LiamO]

You're the one dolling out the hyperbole that this is totalitarian: i.e. we are in a situation where political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life. So what punishment do you think a serial racist offender should face? What punshment do you think would impact on someone who organises and promotes an increasingly overtly racist poltical group, and deter others from following his threatening and abusive example?

Louis MacNeice

Louis,
your argument is, as usual, tasty and tempting... but I will have to decline.

What should they do with him. Fine him. Jail him. Whatever the fuck they want. But you can't start banning people from legitimate political activity and then cry when the same laws are used against people you support

I remember going to see Gareth Pearce speak at the West Belfast Festival. She was asked would she defend the rights of Fascists.She responded "absolutely. Everyone hates it when people they don't like have rights".

If this becomes normal practice, how long til it is used against the Left, against anti-cuts protestors etc. When did magistrates and judges g to decide what is a 'worthy' demo and what is an excuse for trouble-making.

It reminds me of the myopic way the scottish assembly is 'tackling' sectarianism - by declaring one side's as bad as the other and banning loyalist or republican songs from jukeboxes. No thanks.

 

[manny-p]

No you can't - that sort of the point of the concept. You can't have mild totalitarianism. You paranoid freak

You are such a charmer butchers

 

[butchersapron]

Yes you do support civil liberty curtailing economic policies, ones in which we have less freedom to choose how we generate and spend wealth. Old school liberals would sit down and talk with me, unlike your abusive and rude self.

I'd like you to explain this post to me. Step by step.

Note the total lack of critical interrogation of 'we' - 'generate' and 'freedom' in you post.

And no, they would spit in your face. Even Rinka (RIP) would.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you know what totalitarian means?

Of course he doesn't, or he'd have realised that under a totalitarian government, skid-marks like the offender would have been "disappeared" into a life of getting his bollocks electro-shocked before he got chucked down a mine-shaft.

 

[LiamO]

Do you like them knee caps?

Do you want me address?

 

[moon23]

No you can't - that sort of the point of the concept. You can't have mild totalitarianism. You paranoid freak

If that were the case that you can't have mild totalitarianism then how to you suppose a state becomes totalitarianism? Does it overnight just switch in a binary definition to totalitarianism or is it rather the case that a series of characteristics by which we identify something as totalitarian emerge over time.

 

[manny-p]

Do you want me address?

Is this aimed at me?

 

[butchersapron]

If that were the case that you can't have mild totalitarianism then how to you suppose a state becomes totalitarianism? Does it overnight just switch in a binary definition to totalitarianism or is it rather the case that a series of characteristics by which we identify something as totalitarian emerge over time.

I'd suggest that's exactly why the concept is one only used by paranoid freaks.

 

[manny-p]

Double post.

 

[butchersapron]

I'd love some examples of this really existing mild-totalitarianism though.

 

[moon23]

I'd like you to explain this post to me. Step by step.

Note the total lack of critical interrogation of 'we' - 'generate' and 'freedom' in you post.

And no, they would spit in your face. Even Rinka (RIP) would.

Simple you can't separate economic and social liberalism, when you start to restrict the former you also restrict the later.

 

[Fruitloop]

'First they came for the racists...'

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, I'm not. He should have had a sharpened stick hammered up through his anus and out through his gaping mouth. Then the stick should have been planted in the ground in Luton town centre as a warning to other cretins.

What sort of sick fuck are you?



Everyone knows that a sharpened stake is way too quick! A nice rounded stake takes longer, and tears rather than pierces. Much more painful, and an unnaturally-prolonged death!

You bloody amateur!

 

[smokedout]

This domain is blocked. Site blocked. www.spiked-online.com is not allowed on this network.

This site was categorized in: Adult Themes

don't knock it, your filter has some taste

 

[butchersapron]

Do you want me address?

if you join the lib-dems not sure i'll need it.

 

[moon23]

I'd love some examples of this really existing mild-totalitarianism though.

Think of it more like a sliding scale rather than a binary on or off.

 

[ViolentPanda]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/totalitarianism

Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed:

And yet you're free to ply your disgusting, discredited politics.

So, hardly totalitarian, hmmm?

 

[butchersapron]

Simple you can't separate economic and social liberalism, when you start to restrict the former you also restrict the later.

Yes, this is my argument. It's what you do. You abstract rights and fredoms from the ability to use them, from society. It's why you're not a liberal and why you're a tory cunt.