Is Elon Musk the greatest visionary or the greatest snake oil salesman of our age?

[edcraw]

Yeah back now - was form at least an hour and seemed global looking at BlueSky.

 

[two sheds]

So the Tesla modification is to try to ensure that the Autopilot doesn't actually pilot on Auto.

Tesla's recall of 2 million cars relies on a fix that may not even work

Tesla agreed to the recall last week after a federal investigation the system to monitor drivers was defective and required a fix.

fortune.com

Tesla, the leading manufacturer of EVs, reluctantly agreed to the recall last week after a two-year investigation by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that Tesla’s system to monitor drivers was defective and required a fix.

The system sends alerts to drivers if it fails to detect torque from hands on the steering wheel, a system that experts describe as ineffective.

Government documents filed by Tesla say the online software change will increase warnings and alerts to drivers to keep their hands on the steering wheel. It also may limit the areas where the most commonly used versions of Autopilot can be used, though that isn’t entirely clear in Tesla’s documents.

NHTSA began its investigation in 2021, after receiving 11 reports that Teslas that were using the partially automated system crashed into parked emergency vehicles. Since 2016, the agency has sent investigators to at least 35 crashes in which Teslas that were suspected of operating on a partially automated driving system hit parked emergency vehicles, motorcyclists or tractor trailers that crossed in the vehicles’ paths, causing a total of 17 deaths.

But research conducted by NHTSA, the National Transportation Safety Board and other investigators show that merely measuring torque on the steering wheel doesn’t ensure that drivers are paying sufficient attention. Experts say night-vision cameras are needed to watch drivers’ eyes to ensure they’re looking at the road.

 

[NoXion]

Wheels falling off cars at speed. Suspensions collapsing on brand-new vehicles. Axles breaking under acceleration. Tens of thousands of customers told Tesla about a host of part failures on low-mileage cars. The automaker sought to blame drivers for vehicle ‘abuse,’ but Tesla documents show it had tracked the chronic ‘flaws’ and ‘failures’ for years.

It's total fucking bullshit that Tesla is valued so highly as a company.

 

[kabbes]

Wheels falling off cars at speed. Suspensions collapsing on brand-new vehicles. Axles breaking under acceleration. Tens of thousands of customers told Tesla about a host of part failures on low-mileage cars. The automaker sought to blame drivers for vehicle ‘abuse,’ but Tesla documents show it had tracked the chronic ‘flaws’ and ‘failures’ for years.

It's total fucking bullshit that Tesla is valued so highly as a company.

I agree. Its corporate governance is abysmal, and that presents a colossal risk to the company. Companies mostly fail either because they haven’t identified a risk or they have control failures on the risks they have identified. Both these possibilities are hugely exacerbated by a lack of proper executive oversight. Tesla strikes me as a catastrophic collapse waiting to happen.

 

[BigMoaner]

I agree. Its corporate governance is abysmal, and that presents a colossal risk to the company. Companies mostly fail either because they haven’t identified a risk or they have control failures on the risks they have identified. Both these possibilities are hugely exacerbated by a lack of proper executive oversight. Tesla strikes me as a catastrophic collapse waiting to happen.

This dudes politics aside, I’d never by something like a car off him. Far too much money. All to do with his public profile and decisions. Chaotic, and shot through with his own vanity. A 30k car? No thanks. The guy probably cares about his tweets more than health and safety

 

[Smangus]

I agree. Its corporate governance is abysmal, and that presents a colossal risk to the company. Companies mostly fail either because they haven’t identified a risk or they have control failures on the risks they have identified. Both these possibilities are hugely exacerbated by a lack of proper executive oversight. Tesla strikes me as a catastrophic collapse waiting to happen.

Would be a nice Christmas present!!

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Would be a nice Christmas present!!

You'll have to settle for Hyperloop One biting the dust after pissing through $450 M of investment. While not technically his company, it's been something that Musk has championed and takes credit for:

Hyperloop One, a futuristic transportation startup highly touted by Elon Musk, is shuttering its airless tubes.

The company is laying off employees, selling remaining assets (which include a test track and machinery), and closing its offices, Bloomberg reports. After hiring more than 200 people in 2022, remaining workers - who are tasked with supervising the asset sale - were told their employment ends Dec. 31. All of Hyperlooop One's intellectual property will be handed over to majority stakeholder, Dubai-based DP World.

The billionaire estimated in a 2013 proposal that a pod would be able to whisk passengers from Los Angeles to San Francisco in just 35 minutes and "feel a lot like being on an airplane." After its founding in 2014, the buzzy startup raised around $450 million in venture capital funds and other investments, and even constructed a test track near Las Vegas to develop its technology.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Dogsauce]

I thought hyperloop wasn’t really a sincere effort at a transport system anyway, the point of it was to deter the development of high speed rail, which it seems to have achieved. Those backing it were the usual libertarian chuds opposed to public transport and just about any kind of government spending. maybe it just did the job required and theyr‘re winding down?

 

[tommers]

I'd not really realised how much it looks like a car drawn by a 6 year old until I saw it on an actual road. Fuck me.

 

[8ball]

I'd not really realised how much it looks like a car drawn by a 6 year old until I saw it on an actual road. Fuck me.

Looks nothing like it.

Mine had machine guns.

 

[two sheds]

A bit of respite from the fucked-up-automatic-driving recall

Tesla recalls 120,000 vehicles over potentially faulty doors that could open in a crash

Affected vehicles include the 2021 to 2023 Tesla Model S luxury sedan and the Model X SUV.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[teqniq]

Musk's attitude towards Scandinavian unions seems to have blown up in his face quite nicely:

'Get Unionized or Get Out!': Scandinavian Labor Elevates Fight With Tesla's Elon Musk | Common Dreams

"The mistake Tesla made was challenging the collective agreements that set sector-specific minimum wages in Sweden, a country where 70% of the population is unionized," said one political scientist.

www.commondreams.org

 

[Rob Ray]

I really don't get how Tesla's value is still so high. It's wildly overvalued against comparable manufacturers who are pretty much to par with its battery tech, the killer self-drive tech is clearly not ready or likely to be, its latest offering is an international joke, and it's got very public industrial relations problems.

Plus where it's supposedly tied to Musk's personal brand he's pissed off his core market of greens by being a far-right shithouse, while his anti-woke fanboys are also largely anti-green and increasingly specifically anti-electric.

What's justifying the valuation? It's up 133% this year, is no-one seeing that as a bubble?

 

[emanymton]

I really don't get how Tesla's value is still so high. It's wildly overvalued against comparable manufacturers who are pretty much to par with its battery tech, the killer self-drive tech is clearly not ready or likely to be, its latest offering is an international joke, and it's got very public industrial relations problems.

Plus where it's supposedly tied to Musk's personal brand he's pissed off his core market of greens by being a far-right shithouse, while his anti-woke fanboys are also largely anti-green and increasingly specifically anti-electric.

What's justifying the valuation? It's up 133% this year, is no-one seeing that as a bubble?

It's value is because its valuable.

 

[teqniq]

I really don't get how Tesla's value is still so high. It's wildly overvalued against comparable manufacturers who are pretty much to par with its battery tech, the killer self-drive tech is clearly not ready or likely to be, its latest offering is an international joke, and it's got very public industrial relations problems.

Plus where it's supposedly tied to Musk's personal brand he's pissed off his core market of greens by being a far-right shithouse, while his anti-woke fanboys are also largely anti-green and increasingly specifically anti-electric.

What's justifying the valuation? It's up 133% this year, is no-one seeing that as a bubble?

From the article:

 

[Rob Ray]

It's value is because its valuable.

But even speculative value normally spooks at some point, atm it seems like Musk could hang out the side of a chopper shouting "it's a scam, ahaha" and these people would still buy

 

[emanymton]

But even speculative value normally spooks at some point, atm it seems like Musk could hang out the side of a chopper shouting "it's a scam, ahaha" and these people would still buy

I don't get it either, but then I'm not the sort to buy into speculation at any point. Enough people are gambling they can make money of it to keep it going for now.

 

[High Voltage]

It would appear that Tesla is valued more than the next 9 car companies in America...COMBINED

 

[hitmouse]

From the article:
View attachment 405590

The whole thing is worth reading:

As Common Dreamsreported earlier this month, Musk—the world's richest person—has appeared flat-footed in recent weeks as unionized postal workers, delivery drivers, and electricians have refused to work with Tesla to help pressure the company to sign the mechanics' contract.

France 24reported last week that "garbage is piling up outside Tesla centers as refuse collectors refuse to pick it up" and cleaning staff are also declining to work in Tesla showrooms...

Beyond Sweden, powerful unions representing dockworkers in Denmark and transit workers in Norway and Finland have made clear their members won't help Tesla circumvent the Swedish work stoppage that was started in October by the mechanics at the company's service centers.

The unions have pledged in recent weeks to block the transit of Tesla's EVs unless the company could reach an agreement, giving Musk a deadline that expired on Wednesday.

"Swedish workers have [the Transport Workers' Union]'s full support," said Ismo Kokko, president of the Finnish union AKT. "It is a crucial part of the Nordic labor market model that we have collective agreements and unions support each other... The Nordic transport unions stand united in this matter."

Musk has demonstrated little understanding of the display of solidarity that has spread from Sweden to its neighboring countries—calling the postal workers' solidarity strike "insane" and attempting to compel the Swedish postal authority to continue crucial deliveries to Tesla, an effort that was rejected on December 7 by a Swedish court.

 

[kabbes]

What's justifying the valuation? It's up 133% this year, is no-one seeing that as a bubble?

Worth bearing in mind that this is still about 40% below its peak.

As I understand it, the price is a combination of hopes around its ownership of and potential for battery technology (including home and industrial battery banks), charging infrastructure, self-driving data and potential in the automatic taxi space. As more and more is revealed as vapourware, the confidence in the edifice may suddenly collapse, and most of the price could disappear almost overnight. But for now, there are still some big institutional investors (eg Cathie Wood of the ARK fund) who are willing to take that punt.

 

[tommers]

The whole thing is worth reading:

Hahahaha. I started at a US company about ten years ago and the CEO gave us all a talk about how American Airlines (I think) had turned itself around as a company and what a success it was and an example to follow and all this. And the story was essentially that it had banned unions. So this must be blowing Musk's little brain.

 

[teqniq]

Telling us what has been suspected anyway:

The X Files: Leaked documents reveal how staff were stripped of power to remove toxic content

Internal documents show how X content moderators are no longer authorised to take action against accounts posting racist, sexist, and homophobic content

www.businesspost.ie

 

[Serge Forward]

Musk's attitude towards Scandinavian unions seems to have blown up in his face quite nicely:

'Get Unionized or Get Out!': Scandinavian Labor Elevates Fight With Tesla's Elon Musk | Common Dreams

"The mistake Tesla made was challenging the collective agreements that set sector-specific minimum wages in Sweden, a country where 70% of the population is unionized," said one political scientist.

www.commondreams.org

Decent publication that... and supported by people like Naomi Klein and Graham Nash from the Hollies. 'Kin love the Hollies, me

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I thought hyperloop wasn’t really a sincere effort at a transport system anyway, the point of it was to deter the development of high speed rail, which it seems to have achieved. Those backing it were the usual libertarian chuds opposed to public transport and just about any kind of government spending. maybe it just did the job required and theyr‘re winding down?

It's difficult to come up with $450 M in investment. I can't imagine that they would hate high speed rail that much, especially considering that they could have used that amount of cash to invest in technology that has proven both effective and profitable elsewhere on the planet.

 

[Orang Utan]

Merry Christmas!

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[Storm Fox]

Grok roasts Musk.

Spoiler: Screenshot

 

[Rob Ray]

Tesla worker 'attacked' by robot left 'trail of blood' across factory floor

It sank its claws into his back and arm.

metro.co.uk

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Merry Christmas!
View attachment 405734

 

[Artaxerxes]