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Is Elon Musk the greatest visionary or the greatest snake oil salesman of our age?

Storm Fox said:
With all the problems with the Tesla share price, some people might stop and reflect. But I'm going to guess that Musk will double and triple down.
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That's the really fascinating part to this. Does he have that ability to even a tally see where he's fucking up?
 
Rob Ray said:
Nothing says "not a racist" like an unprompted whinge suggesting that calling someone a racist is science denial.
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It's such a dumb take. It's also on the outliers of right wing thought. Ask most mail sun readers for example about COVID and they will have much the same take as anyone else. I.e. they had enough insight to actually lay their cards with people who had studied it for decades. He probably cannot see or have enough "offline" time to see that he is actually siding with the utter dregs of the algorithm
 
BigMoaner said:
It's such a dumb take. It's also on the outliers of right wing thought. Ask most mail sun readers for example about COVID and they will have much the same take as anyone else. I.e. they had enough insight to actually lay their cards with people who had studied it for decades. He probably cannot see or have enough "offline" time to see that he is actually siding with the utter dregs of the algorithm
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Was that cartoon about Covid?
Looked to me like climate change at first but obv Tesla, so unlikely.
 
Rob Ray said:
Nothing says "not a racist" like an unprompted whinge suggesting that calling someone a racist is science denial.
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Hella lot of projection isn't there. Also, no one who actually "trusted the science" said that is the final end of the picture. But they put their trust somewhere that seemed infinitely more sensible than Michael on Facebook as a 1000 folk a day were dying.
 
8ball said:
Was that cartoon about Covid?
Looked to me like climate change at first but obv Tesla, so unlikely.
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Taken from Reddit not sure tbf. He probably is just triggered by the lefts general take that science should be taken fairly seriously at times such as the destruction of the environment or global pandemics.
 
I feel like it’s not funny anymore, his implosion or whatever this show is. It just looks sad to me now.
My best guess about all his recent ‘science’ takes is that along with not being able to force his wives & children to love him the Covid restrictions were a singular and dislocating experience of something happening impinging on his freedom which he couldn’t control with force of will or money, which was a shock & felt like an affront to him.
What happens next idk is there actually anyone who could step in & confiscate his phone for his own good if not for the Tesla shareholders seems like there isn’t.
 
Yossarian said:
Yep, I think a shareholder in any business with a largely left-of-centre clientele would be dismayed to see the CEO sharing a meme antagonizing leftists, feminists, supporters of LGBTQ rights, supporters of abortion rights, Black people, the vaccinated, Muslims, social media users, Google users, CNN viewers, Taoists, Wiccans, and tarot card readers.
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Tesla owners left of centre? Citation needed. :D
 
BigMoaner said:
I'm no economist lol, what does Teslas fall in stock mean in real world terms? Does it mean that the company is crashing, or is it just a normal flux in their value?
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Small fluctuations and movements in line with the wider market wouldn’t mean much. But wholesale crashes are quite debilitating in various ways.

First, companies trying to grow normally need to raise additional capital at some point. They will generally do this both against their existing market capitalisation and their history of growth.

Second, companies generally use shares as incentives for the employees they want to retain at the top level. If the share price crashes, that golden handcuff disappears, as does the “jam tomorrow” promises from growth.

Third, if shareholders get pissed off enough, they will sack the board and the CEO. That depends on who has controlling interest — if Musk owns enough of the company, there’s not much others can do. Otherwise, though, they could oust him.
 
emanymton said:
I think it is just an adjustment to what it should actually be worth not the massively over inflated value it had until now.
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Its worth was based on the potential of owning masses of self-driving algorithm data. I think what happened is that Musk’s implosion has now created massive doubt that these promises are anything more than vapourware.

(Plus, Musk is right that when the risk free rate rises, valuations based on future growth get discounted much more than those making profit today.)
 
kabbes said:
Small fluctuations and movements in line with the wider market wouldn’t mean much. But wholesale crashes are quite debilitating in various ways.

First, companies trying to grow normally need to raise additional capital at some point. They will generally do this both against their existing market capitalisation and their history of growth.

Second, companies generally use shares as incentives for the employees they want to retain at the top level. If the share price crashes, that golden handcuff disappears, as does the “jam tomorrow” promises from growth.

Third, if shareholders get pissed off enough, they will sack the board and the CEO. That depends on who has controlling interest — if Musk owns enough of the company, there’s not much others can do. Otherwise, though, they could oust him.
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Thank you, insightful.
 
I think Tesla buyers are also innovators, they are taking a risk on something new, something without long term ownership evidence. And in that way they are also thought leaders and trend setters.

And there may be evidence that they have to be innovators, one Tesla car has some kind of push button door openers rather than more traditional handles. In a recent cold spell people found they couldn't get into their Teslas because the buttons had frozen over. It seems Tesla couldn't have done sufficient cold weather testing on that model.
 
emanymton said:
I think it is just an adjustment to what it should actually be worth not the massively over inflated value it had until now.
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Think the S&P still has a way to fall...At which point the teslacorrection is going to feel like an over correction. Whether Musk can hold on for the ride remains to be seen (doubt it) but there IS value in what the company has done ..
 
MrCurry said:
The Elon musk show is fantastic atm. And I mean the real one, not the one on iplayer. Is he trying to tank Tesla price to take it private again, or is he really this stupid?
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He's not stupid but he's clearly vulnerable in certain areas and he's been permitted (through ownership) to take on multiple roles of significant responsibility despite those around him being able to see where he might struggle and where he'd end up if overwhelmed, which he clearly is. He's built a whole psychological defence around being clever and people bought into that, somehow not seeing that the foundations might be a bit shaky. Of course he was going to get more controlling the more exposed he is to himself and others. None of this should be surprising if people pay attention to what is known about him and what can be seen. I mean, when he's interviewed he is clearly very uncomfortable, struggles to find words, gives answers that deflect, he masks, if some of his struggles are very visible, its not surprising there are others less publicly visible now coming to the fore.
 
weltweit said:
I think Tesla buyers are also innovators, they are taking a risk on something new, something without long term ownership evidence. And in that way they are also thought leaders and trend setters.

And there may be evidence that they have to be innovators, one Tesla car has some kind of push button door openers rather than more traditional handles. In a recent cold spell people found they couldn't get into their Teslas because the buttons had frozen over. It seems Tesla couldn't have done sufficient cold weather testing on that model.
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Was true, think electric cars now out of the early adoption stage of product life cycle
 
Red Cat said:
He's not stupid but he's clearly vulnerable in certain areas and he's been permitted (through ownership) to take on multiple roles of significant responsibility despite those around him being able to see where he might struggle and where he'd end up if overwhelmed, which he clearly is. He's built a whole psychological defence around being clever and people bought into that, somehow not seeing that the foundations might be a bit shaky. Of course he was going to get more controlling the more exposed he is to himself and others. None of this should be surprising if people pay attention to what is known about him and what can be seen. I mean, when he's interviewed he is clearly very uncomfortable, struggles to find words, gives answers that deflect, he masks, if some of his struggles are very visible, its not surprising there are others less publicly visible now coming to the fore.
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Yep, a service which is all about human interaction is about as far from his comfort/competence zone as you could get! What a car crash.
 
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