Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[cupid_stunt]

It’s not a bank holiday here. Our August bank holiday is at the start of the month. Our schools are not long back, so a holiday now would be a bit weird.

I was aware of that, just didn't know TheHoodedClaw was up your way.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Blimey, the Returning Officer is working on a bank holiday.

It's not a bank holiday here, alas.

 

[Anju]

You went around calling anyone who voted leave a racist, you defended the EUs murderous attack on Greece, you are pushing for the hardest remain position their is, don't pretend that your politics is not based on shutting down any pro-working class options (remain or leave).

The last sentence is twaddle. As BA said total time-waster

For someone who claims to care about class you don't know much. It's not like it's a new figure but as I said 60% of people in Britain identify as working class.
British Social Attitudes | NatCen Social Research
I won't be replying to any angry abusive response so don't bother.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Which one is the bank holiday? I thought today was last one in E&W until christmas

Edit just realised i'm being proper thick here

 

[danny la rouge]

I was aware of that, just didn't know TheHoodedClaw was up your way.

Yes, very nearby. We know all the same pizza restaurants.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Odds of 4-1 on Johnson to leave PM office in 2019, looks a decent bet

 

[Poi E]

For someone who claims to care about class you don't know much. It's not like it's a new figure but as I said 60% of people in Britain identify as working class.
British Social Attitudes | NatCen Social Research
I won't be replying to any angry abusive response so don't bother.

This cracked me up:

• Just under half (47%) of those in jobs classified as managerial and professional
  consider themselves working class.

"I say, looks bit odd. Check how we define "managerial and professional" would you?"

 

[Anju]

This cracked me up:

• Just under half (47%) of those in jobs classified as managerial and professional
  consider themselves working class.

"I say, looks bit odd. Check how we define "managerial and professional" would you?"

So how people identify isn't important.

Last place I worked my boss, in a print room, was from Peckham family. His dad had worked his way up to manager in a law firm print room. Regardless of job title they are working class. My friend is a bus mechanic. His son started apprenticeship at 16 and now at 25 he is a supervisor. Doesn't stop him being working class. I worked as a manager for a few years but now self employed handyman. Was I out then back in your exclusive little club.

Just using job status no longer works to define class. It's values and lifestyle that matter. Just not helpful to stick solely to outdated definitions, as by that measure working class will be extinct soon.

 

[danny la rouge]

So how people identify isn't important.

Last place I worked my boss, in a print room, was from Peckham family. His dad had worked his way up to manager in a law firm print room. Regardless of job title they are working class. My friend is a bus mechanic. His son started apprenticeship at 16 and now at 25 he is a supervisor. Doesn't stop him being working class. I worked as a manager for a few years but now self employed handyman. Was I out then back in your exclusive little club.

Just using job status no longer works to define class. It's values and lifestyle that matter. Just not helpful to stick solely to outdated definitions, as by that measure working class will be extinct soon.

Hi Anju . How are you?

I disagree with pretty much every sentence in the above post. It’s quicker for me just to say that than tackle each point.

That’s fine, though. I’m used to being out of step with the majority on this.

Are you off work today? I start later this afternoon. Just about to make a potato omelette. We’ll have half tomorrow, when it’ll be tastier.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Class through identify politics. My grandad was a miner. Nah.

 

[seventh bullet]

Purely cultural definitions (values and lifestyle for example) of class are as potentially shite as those that look only at the work someone does (although role in relation to others can and does matter).

 

[danny la rouge]

Class through identify politics. My grandad was a miner. Nah.

Mine too. That makes me a miner, right?

(My other grandad was a machine turner. Remind me to put it on my CV).

 

[Proper Tidy]

Mine too. That makes me a miner, right?

(My other grandad was a machine turner. Remind me to put it on my CV).

I always find the use of a grandparents job telling. Basically tells me they are second generation middle class.

 

[Pickman's model]

So how people identify isn't important.

Last place I worked my boss, in a print room, was from Peckham family. His dad had worked his way up to manager in a law firm print room. Regardless of job title they are working class. My friend is a bus mechanic. His son started apprenticeship at 16 and now at 25 he is a supervisor. Doesn't stop him being working class. I worked as a manager for a few years but now self employed handyman. Was I out then back in your exclusive little club.

Just using job status no longer works to define class. It's values and lifestyle that matter. Just not helpful to stick solely to outdated definitions, as by that measure working class will be extinct soon.

What about alan sugar, where'd you put him?

 

[seventh bullet]

I always find the use of a grandparents job telling. Basically tells me they are second generation middle class.

It's those proles that think they've 'made it' to the middle class as well.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And we're back to why Ireland never left the United Kingdon aren't we?

Why do you crave that hard border, the shooting war, the economic and infrastructural sabotage - what on earth is wrong with you?

Shares in Browning?

 

[Pickman's model]

Shares in Browning?

Armalite and Barrett more likely

 

[philosophical]

If somebody is brought up in a kids care home, yet the majority of the supervisors and staff have degrees, that makes them which class?

 

[danny la rouge]

If somebody is brought up in a kids care home, yet the majority of the supervisors and staff have degrees, that makes them which class?

More info needed. Is it Coco Chanel?

 

[DotCommunist]

If somebody is brought up in a kids care home, yet the majority of the supervisors and staff have degrees, that makes them which class?

 

[philosophical]

More info needed. Is it Coco Chanel?

I don't know.
However reading about her she seemed to want to describe her early life as different to what it actually was.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It’s embarrassing stuff this. Some of us have spent significant parts of our lives actively fighting fascists and racists, standing up on the pavement and the shop floor. So fuck you, you pathetic shit.

The idea that support for the racist EU and ‘Fortress Europe’ is some signifier of your anti fascist bonafides is frankly laughable.

Similarly, the idea that people can hold the same view as you on one issue and you can violently oppose them a) on everything else and b) even disagree with their motives and reasons for their position on that one issue where you agree doesn’t seem to have entered your empty head.

Lastly, I don’t know who you are or your track record but there will be no more replies from me to you on the basis of your post.

Let's be frank. In a world where Hope not Hate, Stand Up to Racism and Unite Against Fascism are the main vehicles for "anti-fascism", anti-fascism doesn't have the same meaning that it hate 40, 30 or 20 years ago. What it means now, for many, is going on a point A to point B march, chanting slogans, grassing on genuine anti-fascists taking on the boneheads physically, then fucking off home, aglow with self-righteousness. My personal opinion is that modern-day anti-fascism can be an enabler, not a blocker of hard-right behaviour.

 

[teqniq]

What about alan sugar, where'd you put him?

In a skip.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Actually I would make all new build developments 50% social housing, provided to government at cost and buy every empty property in the country to use as social housing.

I'm lucky enough to live in social housing and it's the only thing that makes life bearable financially.

The problem being that an ever-more-rapacious capitalism won't allow that. Neoliberal govt policies won't allow that, for several reasons.

1) Inside or outside the EU (itself a rapaciously neo-liberally-inclined body) the UK's economy will STILL be shored up by house price inflation, and that inflation can not be allowed to deflate, so housing supply will continue to be constrained/ghost towers will continue to be built.

2) Development and construction companies, and their investors, have their claws deep into politics - not just politicians, but Mandarins too. Take a look at Private Eye's elucidations of "revolving door" shenanigans with developers. This means policy has been constructed to favour the status quo, and not any quasi-revolutionary ideas of expropriation.

3) Our "Establishment" and the hedgies have a lot of money and credibility invested in the status quo. Turkeys rarely vote for Christmas.

I'd like to see massive change, but the chances of achieving it, inside or outside the EU, are small. They're small because our "democratic" system is not democratic. Indeed it's designed to leave the real decisions in the hands of an elite. It all needs tearing down, and true democracy by plebiscite needs to become the norm. No gods, no masters.

 

[ViolentPanda]

In a skip.

Dissolve the lump in a massive vat of tea.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Is having a degree in isolation a signifier of class and on balance would you expect people who work in care homes to have significant capital, so many questions

 

[ViolentPanda]

1. paragraph one doesn’t make any sense. You have suggested that LeFT is excluding. I’ve shown you it isn’t. I’ve also directed to towards research that suggests your attempt to paint the entire BAME community as uniform on Brexit is a reductive position.

Certainly was round here (Brixton). Support appeared generational among my BAME neighbours. Many under-40s voted Remain, and a lot of the over-40s voted Leave.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Armalite and Barrett more likely

Browning make the ammo for the Barrett range.

 

[Anju]

Hi Anju . How are you?

I disagree with pretty much every sentence in the above post. It’s quicker for me just to say that than tackle each point.

That’s fine, though. I’m used to being out of step with the majority on this.

Are you off work today? I start later this afternoon. Just about to make a potato omelette. We’ll have half tomorrow, when it’ll be tastier.

I assumed I would be officially wrong on this.

Agree that just family history isn't important. Both the examples I gave were people who started in normal roles and over a number of years were promoted. Lifestyle, friends and family remain the same. I wasn't talking about a radio 4 producer who's great grandfather had a manual job.

The 60% figure has been fairly constant over a long period so I don't think it's based on a trend of people claiming to be working class because they think it's cool.

Cheese and ham omelette with chips and coleslaw is the only acceptable omelette. Left over biryani this morning.

Not working today. Collecting cash money tomorrow, tiling shower floor Wednesday, maybe have the rest of the week off then a busy couple of weeks. Then the world is my scallop.

 

[Anju]

What about alan sugar, where'd you put him?

Special place. Everyone knows that.