Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[philosophical]

If UK road use has to be paid for in the journey from the EU (Republic of Ireland) through the newly separate UK to the EU (France, Belgium, Holland for example) I see that as understandable.
I am interested as to exactly what methods the UK might use to track such use once it has crossed the newly established hard border on the Island of Ireland, and how exactly transgressions will be dealt with.
I assume that heavily armed UK security forces will be waiting on the UK side of the land border at all crossing points.
I might be wrong in my assumption. Possibly kabbes has thought through alternative practicalities.
I would assume that road use payment would somehow be reciprocal throughout the EU.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Yes, that's exactly it.

I think i'm stopping with you now because a) you appear not to know anything about anything and are not prepared to take steps to learn anything about anything and b) you seem to be replying to some conversation that i'm not actually involved - actual mad crazy shit.

Ok.... well I'll make one last point and then I'll fuck off.
The current actions of the UK leaving the EU will effect workers in the UK and also very much so ordinary workers in Ireland.
I'm pointing that out. So why are you more invested in a UK worker than the worker next door in Ireland who will be impacted by the decisions your government is making based on the votes of less than half the population of the UK?

 

[kabbes]

Same way that workers and anyone paying tax pays for transport infrastructure in every country in the EU?
So you're going to stop exports to the EU because ordinary workers pay tax? Is the UK going to stop exporting to the EU once it leaves?
You think there are no ordinary workers in the EU?

We’re talking here about Irish importers and exporters being subsidised in their costs by using the infrastructure of a country they are neither exporting to nor importing from.

In France, roads have tolls precisely because the French government got fed up with this kind of thing.

So much for solidarity. You think exports and imports are unnecessary for the UK to survive? How will that work when industries pull out? How many workers will lose jobs then?

That’s up to the people of the U.K., isn’t it? It’s a separate argument to saying the U.K. has to stay in the EU because that’s to the benefit of Ireland.

 

[kabbes]

I am interested as to exactly what methods the UK might use to track such use once it has crossed the newly established hard border on the Island of Ireland, and how exactly transgressions will be dealt with.
I assume that heavily armed UK security forces will be waiting on the UK side of the land border at all crossing points.
I might be wrong in my assumption. Possibly kabbes has thought through alternative practicalities.
I would assume that road use payment would somehow be reciprocal throughout the EU.

You should know my solution by now. Northern Ireland to be reunited with ROI

 

[newbie]

Waiting for an answer.

Please feel free to ignore the second\third referendum reference if you so wish.

Second. I voted in 1975 but it was before you and many reading this were out of primary school, those that had got round to being born at all.

From ordinary Remainers such as yourself the demand comes across as desperation; when articulated by the likes of Watson or Thornberry it just seems condescending in the best Lisbon tradition: go back and keep doing it until you get it right.

But you might get your way if you can pressure Labour to make it a redline type demand.

Of course, afterwards the losing side will feel every right to frustrate at all opportunity until they, in turn, can get another one with a result they like. And so on, ad infinitum until we all die of boredom.

 

[butchersapron]

We’re talking here about Irish importers and exporters being subsidised in their costs by using the infrastructure of a country they are neither exporting to nor importing from.

In France, roads have tolls precisely because the French government got fed up with this kind of thing.


That’s up to the people of the U.K., isn’t it? It’s a separate argument to saying the U.K. has to stay in the EU because that’s to the benefit of Ireland.

You'll note i specifically said labour not british labour btw because i'm not a petty nationalist.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

it’s a separate argument to saying the U.K. has to stay in the EU because that’s to the benefit of Ireland.

Where did I say that?
I pointed out the impact on Ireland. The UK doesn't give a rate arse about Ireland. They never have done... I'm not that naive to think they'll change their mind about brexit because of Ireland.
I'm pointing out / reminding the thread that brexit will have repercussions here.

 

[kabbes]

Where did I say that?

And then the very next sentence...

I pointed out the impact on Ireland

 

[Baronage-Phase]

And then the very next sentence...

You do know that Ireland has no influence whatsoever on the UK.

 

[Pickman's model]

You do know that Ireland has no influence whatsoever on the UK.

 

[kabbes]

You do know that Ireland has no influence whatsoever on the UK.

What’s that got to do with anything?

The point of you pointing out the difficulties Ireland will face after Brexit can only be an attempt to suggest the U.K. should bear this in mind when making its decisions, ie it should not leave the EU because of the damage this causes to Ireland. Saying “I’m just pointing out the consequences but I’m not saying you should do anything about that” is passive aggressive pretence and I’m not having it for a moment.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What’s that got to do with anything?

The point of you pointing out the difficulties Ireland will face after Brexit can only be an attempt to suggest the U.K. should bear this in mind when making its decisions, ie it should not leave the EU because of the damage this causes to Ireland. Saying “I’m just pointing out the consequences but I’m not saying you should do anything about that” is passive aggressive pretence and I’m not having it for a moment.

The UK should certainly take difficulties caused to Ireland, or anyone else, in making its decsions. Are you suggesting it shouldn't?

 

[Flavour]

Lupa. If all Irish exports were done via sea direct to france rather than via the british road network, how many fucks would you give? Does it matter at all? Has this got anything to do with the reasons why Brexit may or may not happen? You imply that we should stay in the EU because leaving inconveniences Ireland. Believe me, it inconveniences many in the EU much more.

 

[butchersapron]

What’s that got to do with anything?

The point of you pointing out the difficulties Ireland will face after Brexit can only be an attempt to suggest the U.K. should bear this in mind when making its decisions, ie it should not leave the EU because of the damage this causes to Ireland. Saying “I’m just pointing out the consequences but I’m not saying you should do anything about that” is passive aggressive pretence and I’m not having it for a moment.

And certainly not from someone who appears as a point of principle to disregard what the eu is currently doing to 'ordinary workers' in countries outside of the UK and Ireland.

 

[kabbes]

The UK should certainly take difficulties caused to Ireland, or anyone else, in making its decsions. Are you suggesting it shouldn't?

I don’t know, frankly. I think there is a weighing up of relative harm that can be included but I don’t think it should prioritise them over the needs of its own population .

But Lupa is certainly suggesting the U.K. needs to take into account the difficulties caused to Ireland when making its decisions and should have the honesty to own this position and stand behind it rather than this pass-agg attempt to say it and not say it at the same time.

 

[butchersapron]

I don’t know, frankly. I think there is a weighing up of relative harm that can be included but I don’t think it should prioritise them over the needs of its own population .

But Lupa is certainly suggesting the U.K. needs to take into account the difficulties caused to Ireland when making its decisions and should have the honesty to own this position and stand behind it rather than this pass-agg attempt to say it and not say it at the same time.

At my catholic school the nuns/teachers used to come round at lunchtime with pictures of biafran babies going don't you care about the black babies so that kids would hand over dinner money (or pester their parents). This is a version of the same. As was that don't you believe in freedom then move earlier.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

But Lupa is certainly suggesting the U.K. needs to take into account the difficulties caused to Ireland when making its decisions and should have the honesty to own this position and stand behind it rather than this pass-agg attempt to say it and not say it at the same time.

Of course I'm owning my posts. But I also know that Ireland's position means nothing...in the grand scheme of Brexit. Ireland doesn't count in the minds of those who want Brexit....It is not passive aggressive to state that.

 

[kabbes]

Of course I'm owning my posts. But I also know that Ireland's position means nothing...in the grand scheme of Brexit. Ireland doesn't count in the minds of those who want Brexit....It is not passive aggressive to state that.

That was pretty much textbook pass-agg, actually. “Oh my life is hard but you don’t care anyway.”

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Of course I'm owning my posts. But I also know that Ireland's position means nothing...in the grand scheme of Brexit. Ireland doesn't count in the minds of those who want Brexit....It is not passive aggressive to state that.

It's not passive aggressive, but it is close to meaningless. Brexit isn't happening. It is impossible to 'know the minds' of 17.4 Million people and in terms of the administrative wing of capital, their representatives have become obsessed with the 'position' of Ireland.

 

[Pickman's model]

You do know that Ireland has no influence whatsoever on the UK.

This written at a time when what the Irish government thinks has more influence than at any previous time.

 

[kabbes]

The irony is that Ireland is a HUGE part of the problem with the EU and indirectly a cause of the high levels of dissatisfaction. By essentially making themselves an off-shore tax haven, they’ve allowed financial services to relocate themselves in an ultra-low corporate tax haven and enabled things like the “Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich” corporate manoeuvre that takes tax revenue out of the hands of where it belongs (namely the countries generating it). The result is that people outside of the SE of England see jobs and services disappear and they get frustrated and angry with the EU. In the end, Ireland is the tragic architect of its own destruction on this one.

But Lupa, you have of course been campaigning in Ireland to get these tax loopholes closed, right? Because you believe in protecting workers in other countries?

 

[philosophical]

It seems to me the UK need only pay heed to the Republic of Ireland in terms of the practicalities regarding the land border they share, and through the lens of any international treaties the UK has signed that has issues affecting UK/ROI stuff.
If the British Brexit has any impact on the ROI then so be it. 17.4 million people voted for a different border on the island of Ireland and if it becomes harsh or dangerous then it is possible or the EU can find ways to retaliate.
I am no expert but it might be possible to ban overlying EU territory, and shoot down aircraft originating in the UK.
A bit extreme, maybe there would be other ways to retaliate mind you.

Edit

Overflying

 

[Flavour]

I am no expert but it might be possible to ban overlying EU territory, and shoot down aircraft originating in the UK.
A bit extreme, maybe there would be other ways to retaliate mind you.

Hard man

 

[Baronage-Phase]

At my catholic school the nuns/teachers used to come round at lunchtime with pictures of biafran babies going don't you care about the black babies so that kids would hand over dinner money (or pester their parents). This is a version of the same. As was that don't you believe in freedom then move earlier.

Wtf? You must be very old...

But Lupa, you have of course been campaigning in Ireland to get these tax loopholes closed, right? Because you believe in protecting workers in other countries?

If you are asking me what I support? I support the anti austerity group Solidarity....and Independents for Change.

 

[kabbes]

If you are asking me what I support? I support the anti austerity group Solidarity....and Independents for Change.

No, that’s not what I’m asking you at all. I’m asking what you are doing to remove the tax loopholes that allow multinationals to set head offices up in Ireland with minimal corporate tax rates and use those head offices as a base to wash EU profits through, this eliminating the need to pay corporate tax in the place the profit was generated.

You do know that’s what your country does, right?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

No, that’s not what I’m asking you at all. I’m asking what you are doing to remove the tax loopholes that allow multinationals to set head offices up in Ireland with minimal corporate tax rates and use those head offices as a base to wash EU profits through, this eliminating the need to pay corporate tax in the place the profit was generated.

You do know that’s what your country does, right?

Well...as a citizen who votes for a party that is pretty much against that policy then I'm doing what I can.

 

[kabbes]

Well...as a citizen who votes for a party that is pretty much against that policy then I'm doing what I can.

What does “pretty much” mean?

And in the meantime, as long as your country keeps voting to enable it, why shouldn’t workers in other countries vote to do things to protect themselves from it?

 

[newbie]

Well...as a citizen who votes for a party that is pretty much against that policy then I'm doing what I can.

It's a pincer. If you vote against the RoI corporation tax policies you're voting to impoverish Irish workers. If you vote for them you're endorsing lowering the tax take elsewhere, and thus impoverishing foreign, to you, workers.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

What does “pretty much” mean?

And in the meantime, as long as your country keeps voting to enable it, why shouldn’t workers in other countries vote to do things to protect themselves from it?

Solidarity are against it.

As for what your country does? That's up to them and you. I dont believe Brexit will benefit ordinary workers in the UK...you obviously believe that the UK will be a better place for workers once the UK leaves the EU...but nobody will know for sure until the UK has left.

 

[philosophical]

Why be passive aggressive when you can be aggressive aggressive?