Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Pickman's model]

I have a view of Thatcher and her regime that is based on her actions in NI and her attitude towards the hunger strikers here...and her treatment of the miners the UK...
I thought the EU was a different fish altogether.

If Brexit goes ahead, what will happen to ordinary workers in Ireland and the UK?

If we go there will be trouble
If we stay it will be double

 

[Baronage-Phase]

That depends on the future political decisions of the U.K. and Ireland.

But if the UK leaves...it will impact on Ireland regardless of our political leadership. We will be physically isolated from Europe.

 

[butchersapron]

That depends on the future political decisions of the U.K. and Ireland.

And the EU. Its role. With our without the UK is to drive wages down and productivity up. That week have a direct downward pressure on UK wages if successful.

 

[kabbes]

I have a view of Thatcher and her regime that is based on her actions in NI and her attitude towards the hunger strikers here...and her treatment of the miners the UK...
I thought the EU was a different fish altogether.

If Brexit goes ahead, what will happen to ordinary workers in Ireland and the UK?

Thatcher’s Tories were socially conservative and authoritarian but as recent political direction across Europe demonstrates, there is nothing preventing this in the EU either. Economically, however, the EU is built on Thatcherism, not merely parallel to it, let alone in opposition to it. That’s why the very article you linked to placed Thatcher in the first paragraph, front and centre.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

A 150+ posts on this thread later do you still think the EU is a different fish altogether ?

Well...yes... I'd rather Ireland be part of the EU than part of the UK. Being part of the EU has been far better for us than being part of the UK.

 

[kabbes]

But if the UK leaves...it will impact on Ireland regardless of our political leadership. We will be physically isolated from Europe.

The EU has never been about physical proximity. How physically proximal are Germany and Greece?

 

[butchersapron]

I have a view of Thatcher and her regime that is based on her actions in NI and her attitude towards the hunger strikers here...and her treatment of the miners the UK...
I thought the EU was a different fish altogether.

If Brexit goes ahead, what will happen to ordinary workers in Ireland and the UK?

Are you asking yourself what the price of staying in the EU is for Irish and British workers? If not, why not?

 

[butchersapron]

Well...yes... I'd rather Ireland be part of the EU than part of the UK. Being part of the EU has been far better for us than being part of the UK.

Do you still think the EU is a different fish from thatcherite neoliberalism after you poste a link outlining why the EU is exactly that neoliberalism. That's what I asked you.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

The EU has never been about physical proximity. How physically proximal are Germany and Greece?

Well you can drive from one to the other!

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The EU has never been about physical proximity. How physically proximal are Germany and Greece?

Ireland is an island. We transported exports and imports via the UK and it was highly effective because of freedom of movement. You do know that we dont have land links to the EU. And air links are also going to be affected as many go via stops in the UK.

 

[butchersapron]

Well you can drive from one to the other!

And you used to able to from Ireland to France before this I'll advised exercise in... er... making new seas and that.

 

[butchersapron]

Ireland is an island. We transported exports and imports via the UK and it was highly effective because of freedom of movement. You do know that we dont have land links to the EU. And air links are also going to be affected as many go via stops in the UK.

So not physically isolated then.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ireland is an island. We transported exports and imports via the UK and it was highly effective because of freedom of movement. You do know that we dont have land links to the EU. And air links are also going to be affected as many go via stops in the UK.

At a meeting of the grytviken-buenos aires friendship bridge management board it was decided to commission a feasibility study for a less ambitious project to test the bridge design, looking at a link from Cork to roscoff. The board also felt this would allow the mettle of the workforce to be tested.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Are you asking yourself what the price of staying in the EU is for Irish and British workers? If not, why not?

The price of UK leaving the EU will be massive for Irish workers....
As for British workers...there are industries already pulling out of the UK and more threatening to do so....which will effect workers in those industries.

 

[butchersapron]

The price of UK leaving the EU will be massive for Irish workers....
As for British workers...there are industries already pulling out of the UK and more threatening to do so....which will effect workers in those industries.

That's a no then. Which goes some way to explaining why you think the EU is different fish from thatcherite neoliberalism.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

At a meeting of the grytviken-buenos aires friendship bridge management board it was decided to commission a feasibility study for a less ambitious project to test the bridge design, looking at a link from Cork to roscoff. The board also felt this would allow the mettle of the workforce to be tested.

Cork to Roscoff?
Imagine that...600km.

I doubt that will happen.

 

[kabbes]

Ireland is an island. We transported exports and imports via the UK and it was highly effective because of freedom of movement. You do know that we dont have land links to the EU. And air links are also going to be affected as many go via stops in the UK.

But what is the point here? The U.K. has to stay in the EU because that is convenient for Irish exporting?

 

[kabbes]

To be honest, I’m not exactly thrilled anyway about the idea of Britain’s overloaded road network being used as a cheap way for Irish exporters to get to continental Europe and back. The exporters aren’t paying any tax for this service, after all. The fact that they might have to either pay for a ferry to take them to France, Spain or Holland or pay some kind of duty for the right to use U.K. infrastructure doesn’t fill me with as much horror as you might think.

 

[Pickman's model]

Cork to Roscoff?
Imagine that...600km.

I doubt that will happen.

if it comes to naught then at least we'll have saved the expense of shipping the former people to the south atlantic

 

[butchersapron]

To be honest, I’m not exactly thrilled anyway about the idea of Britain’s overloaded road network being used as a cheap way for Irish exporters to get to continental Europe and back. The exporters aren’t paying any tax for this service, after all. The fact that they might have to either pay for a ferry to take them to France, Spain or Holland or pay some kind of duty for the right to use U.K. infrastructure doesn’t fill me with as much horror as you might think.

It's uk labour subsidising capital is what it is.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

It's uk labour subsidising capital is what it is.

What's that supposed to mean?

You dont believe in freedom of movement?

 

[Wilf]

May’s deal is a was a very badly judged attempt at triangulation. It was presented appallingly. Even if it hadn't been was never likely to be a deal that the polarised administrators of the ruling class could live with. But, unlike Labour she at least had a strategy. Even now, bar collapsing back into the single market, Labour seems to have zero ideas or a strategic vision on the issue. At some point this will haunt them generally and Corbyn in particular

Yep and even less of an idea about brexit that they would use as part of an active engagement with the working class.

 

[butchersapron]

What's that supposed to mean?

You dont believe in freedom of movement?

It means that labour - that is your 'ordinary workers' - pay for the transport networks and related and infrastructure that capital uses to profit from.

And jesus 'effin christ, please save me.

 

[kabbes]

What's that supposed to mean?

You dont believe in freedom of movement?

Freedom of movement has literally nothing to do with this particular subject

 

[butchersapron]

Don't you like freedom boy

 

[Pickman's model]

What's that supposed to mean?

You dont believe in freedom of movement?

Fom is the freedom for people to relocate from one country to live in another, and should not be confused with the movement of goods as you've done above

 

[Baronage-Phase]

It means that labour - that is your 'ordinary workers' - pay for the transport networks and related and infrastructure that capital uses to profit from.

And jesus 'effin christ, please save me.

Same way that workers and anyone paying tax pays for transport infrastructure in every country in the EU?
So you're going to stop exports to the EU because ordinary workers pay tax? Is the UK going to stop exporting to the EU once it leaves?
You think there are no ordinary workers in the EU?

So much for solidarity. You think exports and imports are unnecessary for the UK to survive? How will that work when industries pull out? How many workers will lose jobs then?

 

[butchersapron]

Same way that workers and anyone paying tax pays for transport infrastructure in every country in the EU?
So you're going to stop exports to the EU because ordinary workers pay tax? Is the UK going to stop exporting to the EU once it leaves?
You think there are no ordinary workers in the EU?

So much for solidarity. You think exports and imports are unnecessary for the UK to survive? How will that work when industries pull out? How many workers will lose jobs then?

Yes, that's exactly it.

I think i'm stopping with you now because a) you appear not to know anything about anything and are not prepared to take steps to learn anything about anything and b) you seem to be replying to some conversation that i'm not actually involved - actual mad crazy shit.

 

[butchersapron]

So much for solidarity. You think exports and imports are unnecessary for the UK to survive? How will that work when industries pull out? How many workers will lose jobs then?

As for this, you've just shown that you don't care what the EU does to 'ordinary workers' beyond the effects the UK leaving will have on irish and british workers. A great example of two nationalisms for the price of one - a petty anti-british irtish nationalism and a turning of the back on other eu workers - and in the name of international solidarity. Just beyond bizarre.

 

[butchersapron]

Same way that workers and anyone paying tax pays for transport infrastructure in every country in the EU?
So you're going to stop exports to the EU because ordinary workers pay tax? Is the UK going to stop exporting to the EU once it leaves?
You think there are no ordinary workers in the EU?

So much for solidarity. You think exports and imports are unnecessary for the UK to survive? How will that work when industries pull out? How many workers will lose jobs then?

I think you've beaten supine with this...thing.