Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[Pickman's model]

Bit of "street angel house devil" going on. Nothing new in that surely?

I'd like some examples on eg surveillance where the UK has been an eu force for good, privacy, human rights etc not just the UK has been an inestimable force for good. We've been told before what a force for good the uk's been in India, Africa, Ireland etc and sadly it's not always quite rung true

 

[butchersapron]

British influence in Brussels had been far greater than recognised


Unfortunate that the first example given in this article is Thatcherite reference .... but an interesting read if you can possibly move on from that paragraph.

Do you know what liberalising means BTW?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Unfortunate? Is this some sort of joke? Are you suggesting that we overlook the main and most influential thing the UK has done - the thing that has and will most effect how it operates - when we evaluate the influence the UK has had on the EU and the argument that its influence is a definite good?

Not at all.
I was merely stating that the article was about much more than Thatcher.....

 

[butchersapron]

Not at all.
I was merely stating that the article was about much more than Thatcher.....

The piece is all about how the UK successfully pushed the liberalising Thatcherite agenda, all the other things that it takes about are as examples of this liberalising. It literally is all there. So is this the good stuff

 

[collectordave]

What is this guff. If you make a claim then you are making an argument.

It is a point of view not a claim. It only becomes an argument if you cannot accept that someone else has a different point of view to your own.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The piece is all about how the UK successfully pushed the liberalising Thatcherite agenda, all the other things that it takes about are as examples of this liberalising. It literally is all there. So is this the good stuff

It does state that the UK was influential in the past in the push for open borders and new member states... was that bad?

 

[butchersapron]

It does state that the UK was influential in the past in the push for open borders and new member states... was that bad?

For what reasons does it suggest that the UK pushed for these things?Jesus Christ, just look up the authors and their views if you don't believe their opening statement. Don't just link to the first thing you find after a few seconds googling.

 

[collectordave]

Could you outline the results of that influence please?

British influence in Brussels had been far greater than recognised

 

[butchersapron]

British influence in Brussels had been far greater than recognised

This liberalising is the thing that is an 'inestimable value for good' ?

Good job you're on the case for remain.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Do you know what liberalising means BTW?

It means: "to remove or loosen restrictions on (something, typically an economic or political system)"

Would that not be the opposite of what will happen once the UK leaves the EU?

 

[redsquirrel]

It is a point of view not a claim. It only becomes an argument if you cannot accept that someone else has a different point of view to your own.

Total utter LD guff. When you put forward a "point of view" you are putting forward a political position, one that leads to certain logical conclusions and that can be interrogated.

 

[collectordave]

How can hmg's influence on the eu be an inestimable good when so much of what it does at home is bloody awful?

Now there is a conundrum. Maybe spending to much time on blaming the EU for its failures instead of tackling the problems?

 

[butchersapron]

It means: "to remove or loosen restrictions on (something, typically an economic or political system)"

Would that not be the opposite of what will happen once the UK leaves the EU?

No it doesn't. It means to privatise, to sell off, to undermine collective public provision of services, it means to cut wages pensions and benefits, it means to force people to work longer in worse conditions and other freedoms.

I have no idea what that question is supposed to mean.

 

[butchersapron]

Now there is a conundrum. Maybe spending to much time on blaming the EU for its failures instead of tackling the problems?

Pull your socks up.

This is drivel. What drives a man to think this is something worth posting?

 

[collectordave]

Total utter LD guff. When you put forward a "point of view" you are putting forward a political position, one that leads to certain logical conclusions and that can be interrogated.

It is just my point of view not a political position. It seems you cannot accept that?

 

[collectordave]

This is drivel. What drives a man to think this is something worth posting?

Maybe you could tell us all?

 

[Pickman's model]

Now there is a conundrum. Maybe spending to much time on blaming the EU for its failures instead of tackling the problems?

For forty-five fucking years?

 

[Pickman's model]

It is just my point of view not a political position. It seems you cannot accept that?

It seems to me you are having difficulty pointing to anything to back up your pov, to persuade others of it

 

[Baronage-Phase]

No it doesn't. It means to privatise, to sell off, to undermine collective public provision of services, it means to cut wages pensions and benefits, it means to force people to work longer in worse conditions and other freedoms.

I have no idea what that question is supposed to mean.

Fair enough. I detest Thatcher for what she did here and to the miners in England.

I'm asking a genuine question though. Do you believe that the EU is driven by a Thatcherist form of liberalism?

 

[butchersapron]

Fair enough. I detest Thatcher for what she did here and to the miners in England.

I'm asking a genuine question though. Do you believe that the EU is driven by a Thatcherist form of liberalism?

You've just posted a link outlining how this is the case.

 

[andysays]

Never mind the effect, feel the effectiveness...

 

[kabbes]

The EU IS the Thatcherist version of liberalism!

 

[kabbes]

It is just my point of view not a political position.

Lololol

 

[Baronage-Phase]

You've just posted a link outlining how this is the case.

Ok...obviously I need to read more.

 

[Sprocket.]

The EU IS the Thatcherist version of liberalism!

Hayek and Friedman would agree with you too.

 

[Ranbay]

 

[Pickman's model]

Ok...obviously I need to read more.

Have a pity like

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Have a pity like

I have a view of Thatcher and her regime that is based on her actions in NI and her attitude towards the hunger strikers here...and her treatment of the miners the UK...
I thought the EU was a different fish altogether.

If Brexit goes ahead, what will happen to ordinary workers in Ireland and the UK?

 

[kabbes]

I have a view of Thatcher and her regime that is based on her actions in NI and her attitude towards the hunger strikers here...and her treatment of the miners the UK...
I thought the EU was a different fish altogether.

If Brexit goes ahead, what will happen to ordinary workers in Ireland and the UK?

That depends on the future political decisions of the U.K. and Ireland.

 

[butchersapron]

I have a view of Thatcher and her regime that is based on her actions in NI and her attitude towards the hunger strikers here...and her treatment of the miners the UK...
I thought the EU was a different fish altogether.

If Brexit goes ahead, what will happen to ordinary workers in Ireland and the UK?

A 150+ posts on this thread later do you still think the EU is a different fish altogether ?