Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[mauvais]

Who was the third, was it me?

 

[Pickman's model]

Balance of probabilities is still that it will. But, OK, let’s be completely empirical.

There's been so many twists and turns I think we're due a couple more including a final denouement

 

[SpineyNorman]

If shaking things up by huge amounts of job losses is a lexiter plan I'm not sure it'll be very popular.

It's not anyone's plan. It exists only in the fevered imagination of pro EU liberals.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Who was the third, was it me?

Not telling

 

[mauvais]

Hang on. You specifically argued that climate change was too important to be left to the workers, that only governments could tackle it. Surely you should be argued for car plants to be re-purposed

There's a lot of long winded tangents to potentially unpack in that, but let's be honest, logical continuity should never be an obstacle to having a pop at teuchter's terrible trolling.

 

[redsquirrel]

but let's be honest, logical continuity should never be an obstacle to having a pop at teuchter's terrible trolling.

OK, that's fair.

 

[mauvais]

The actual boring answer to your cross-thread point is, aside from probably it already being too late, then yes I do think there will need to be a top-down forced transition to something that isn't, in this order: diesel cars, petrol cars, personal cars, maybe any cars. But I don't suppose that teutcher's dream of the UK car industry going unilaterally down the shitter ASAP due to domestic government ineptitude will be a lot of use in that goal.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

It's on 2221 now

DUP extended families ...?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Have you signed?

 

[MickiQ]

The Lexiteers will agree with me though, because this whole thing is an opporrunity for a shake-up and a move to better things. We can get rid of the bankers and the car companies at the same time.

Assuming that you're not trolling, the UK car manufacturing industry going down the shitter won't actually reduce the number of cars on the road (well maybe some due to fewer people having jobs)? There will just be more imported cars on the road. There are plenty of countries in the world with no car industry at all that have plenty of cars in them.
One of the hard core Brexit arguments was always Germany will give us a good deal because we'll stop buying Audi, BMW, VW etc. No we won't we'll just pay more for them because of tariffs.

 

[Pickman's model]

The Lexiteers will agree with me though, because this whole thing is an opporrunity for a shake-up and a move to better things. We can get rid of the bankers and the car companies at the same time.

Not to mention scores of other industries you disapprove of

 

[Supine]

It's not anyone's plan. It exists only in the fevered imagination of pro EU liberals.

People on this thread have been talking about losing jobs being good.

 

[SpineyNorman]

People on this thread have been talking about losing jobs being good.

I know they have. That's what I'm referring to in the post you've quoted.

 

[teuchter]

It's not anyone's plan. It exists only in the fevered imagination of pro EU liberals.

Nope, it's been suggested at various points on this thread that the worst off in the UK have nothing to lose from large scale economic disruption and that this explains a portion the Leave vote, and therefore Lexit fantasists don't have to feel bad about their preferred outcomes meaning that a bunch of less badly off people will likely lose their jobs, and furthermore we must all remember that if this kind of outcome does come to pass, it's what people voted for.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Nope, it's been suggested at various points on this thread that the worst off in the UK have nothing to lose from large scale economic disruption and that this explains a portion the Leave vote, and therefore Lexit fantasists don't have to feel bad about their preferred outcomes meaning that a bunch of less badly off people will likely lose their jobs, and furthermore we must all remember that if this kind of outcome does come to pass, it's what people voted for.

I suppose you've got quotes to back that up?

 

[teuchter]

I suppose you've got quotes to back that up?

eg

I think for a lot of working class have weighed it up and decided it's better to end it ruinously than to live with endless ruin.

I believe there will be a massive negative economic impact from Brexit, however that’s not to say a crash wouldn’t have happened with Remain anyway, so it’s not really about hard figures, but saying the gamble was probably worth it in terms of disruption of the normal way of doing things.

Of course whether people are in a position to take advantage of the disruption to create a more economically democratic society is another matter. If they are then we will know how much it was worth it.

 

[CRI]

Nope, it's been suggested at various points on this thread that the worst off in the UK have nothing to lose from large scale economic disruption and that this explains a portion the Leave vote, and therefore Lexit fantasists don't have to feel bad about their preferred outcomes meaning that a bunch of less badly off people will likely lose their jobs, and furthermore we must all remember that if this kind of outcome does come to pass, it's what people voted for.

I haven't followed the whole thread, but I do often see on social media from left-leaning, pro-leave folks saying that for some people, things are so bad that they couldn't possibly get worse to argue the case for leaving, including with "No Deal." Granted, quite a few of those on Twitter at least are bots/shills, but not all of them. It's bananas to think that because the situation is worse than it's ever been for some people, it can't get even worse still.

 

[Pickman's model]

I haven't followed the whole thread, but I do often see on social media from left-leaning, pro-leave folks saying that for some people, things are so bad that they couldn't possibly get worse to argue the case for leaving, including with "No Deal." Granted, quite a few of those on Twitter at least are bots/shills, but not all of them. It's bananas to think that because the situation is worse than it's ever been for some people, it can't get even worse still.

We will look back on the spring of 2019 as the last of the halcyon days

 

[SpineyNorman]

I haven't followed the whole thread, but I do often see on social media from left-leaning, pro-leave folks saying that for some people, things are so bad that they couldn't possibly get worse to argue the case for leaving, including with "No Deal." Granted, quite a few of those on Twitter at least are bots/shills, but not all of them. It's bananas to think that because the situation is worse than it's ever been for some people, it can't get even worse still.

You're a proven liar with a track record of deliberately misrepresenting others in order to smear them so nobody should take a word you say seriously.

 

[SpineyNorman]

eg

That's a no then.

 

[brogdale]

I haven't followed the whole thread, but I do often see on social media from left-leaning, pro-leave folks saying that for some people, things are so bad that they couldn't possibly get worse to argue the case for leaving, including with "No Deal." Granted, quite a few of those on Twitter at least are bots/shills, but not all of them. It's bananas to think that because the situation is worse than it's ever been for some people, it can't get even worse still.

You don't have to be 'pro-leave' to appreciate why those who have suffered most from neoliberal, late capitalism might have rejected the tory Government's injunction to support the supra-state.

 

[brogdale]

We will look back on the spring of 2019 as the last of the halcyon days

The olive hoarding months

 

[agricola]

The olive hoarding months

As opposed to 2020's Olive, hoarding moths.

 

[Sprocket.]

We will look back on the spring of 2019 as the last of the halcyon days

When we still had salad, days.

 

[Pickman's model]

When we still had salad, days.

Before the locust days when we had to eat insects

 

[teuchter]

You don't have to be 'pro-leave' to appreciate why those who have suffered most from neoliberal, late capitalism might have rejected the tory Government's injunction to support the supra-state.

I think that should be 'speculate' rather than 'appreciate'.

 

[brogdale]

I think that should be 'speculate' rather than 'appreciate'.

Probably best if you stick to writing your own posts.

 

[CRI]

You don't have to be 'pro-leave' to appreciate why those who have suffered most from neoliberal, late capitalism might have rejected the tory Government's injunction to support the supra-state.

I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the idea that "things can't get any worse." They absolutely can.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

 

[mauvais]

Nissan was offered secret state aid to cope with Brexit, minister concedes

The business secretary has been forced to admit the existence of a previously secret package of state aid to Nissan that could have been worth up to £80m had the carmaker gone ahead with plans to manufacture a new model X-Trail in Sunderland after Brexit.

Greg Clark released a letter dated October 2016 in which he pledged tens of millions of taxpayer support and promised the Japanese company it would not be “adversely affected” after the UK left the EU.

Yet, at the time the commitments were first made, Downing Street had said “there was no special deal for Nissan” and Clark refused six times to answer a question about what was on offer when interviewed on the BBC. He even appeared to suggest no money was involved. Asked on BBC One’s Question Time about the deal, he said: “There’s no chequebook. I don’t have a chequebook.”

Whoops. But also:

Nissan said it planned to consolidate all production of the X-Trail in its plant in Kyushu, Japan. Cars manufactured there will benefit from the recently completed free-trade agreement between the EU and Japan, which will mean all tariffs on cars are reduced to zero within seven years.

Went into effect on 1st of Feb. Not good news for Britain until if/when it manages to replicate this FTA (it took the EU about six years). But not exactly a clear argument for a jobs-based Remain either.