ska invita
back on the other side
Have I got this right, the Tories are offering to invest six billion in northern areas only if Labour support Mays deal... And if they don't those areas don't get the money? Is that really what's happening?
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
grit
an ugly force for good
Correct, it’s a naked bribe.
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
Yeh it's a really new creation
Race, Language and Social Class in Seventeenth-Century Ireland - Persée
Ok...maybe its the language that is my issue...The Brehon laws allowed for social strata...with a lot of degrees within each strata. They were not strictly applied...And movement between each was commonly possible. They were related very much to responsibility and ability. Being born at one level did not mean you stayed at that level. They were very different to more modern descriptions of "working class", " middle class", "elite class". At the Flaith level for example, there was an emphasis on property ownership over generations and wealth so that does relate in some way to more modern descriptions of 'class'...but the fact that a person could move through these strata / classes was and is the big difference.
It's not as straight forward as x number of classes and people left slotting into them because they're born in that class. People could move through merit and work through the system. Chieftains could be elected. Movement through strata was also used a reward or indeed a punishment.
Classification of ancient Irish Society - Brehon Laws
It's a lot more subtle than a modern view of rigid class systems and was an excellent social construct in many ways.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Perhaps you might benefit from reading some basic sociology, maybe some marx and weber or a sociology textbook like haralambos and holborn sociology: themes and perspectives
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Worked (ish) on the DUP.
The Labour position on brexit is wibble wobble incomprehensible cack anyway.
I am surprised Labour don't get attacked more for their useless approach.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Only because the tory party are also conspicuous by their ineptitude and have the good fortune to be in office if not in power
have you missed the last three years of politics or something?
Its the one thing you can say about Corbyn, till this point he's had a pretty easy ride.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Small change to secure Singapore-on-Thames.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Obviously there's some tinkering to be done but if we want to reintroduce a pre-feudal system of political economy into the UK you could do much worse than use the Brehon Laws as a starting point
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Have you missed the word 'more' in my post?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It was the word that stuck out, to be fair. I wondered how much more opprobrium you imagined.
ska invita
back on the other side
Who made that offer (6bill for the north)? is it on public record?
ETA: Im gleaning that it was at the May & Corbyn meeting?? Is that right?
Fuck me, Labour should go to town on this and expose the Tories over this, turn it around and say to the country: The Tories deliberately withhold the funding you desperately need but are prepared to use your poverty as a gambling chip. Its a total disgrace if that's what's happened. Labour should force the 6billion investment whatever, now they've 'admitted' the money is available from the magic money tree
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philosophical
Well-Known Member
The criticism of Labour has been along the lines of what ideas have they got.
I (yes you can't turn back time) would say they should be castigated for voting for article 50, and for having brexit in their 2017 manifesto...If only because they're clueless about the practicalities of brexit, and originally the party was supposed to have been in favour of remain.
I voted Labour in that election, and in the Lewisham East by-election, because anti Tory and anti austerity mattered more, but who are they trying to kid on brexit?
They ought to have been straightforward and honest from the outset and said they are anti brexit because of the Irish border, and as a party that did so much to get the GFA they were not prepared to devastate it.
I am no fan of Ian Blackford, but I thought his repeated assertions that the Tories want to destroy the GFA (despite their lying words) were spot on.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
During the referendum campaign. Do you think they should have continued with that stance after the result? That would have been electoral suicide in their post-industrial heartlands.
ska invita
back on the other side
My mind boggles with this - the idea that 6 billion to poorest northern areas is a bribe to Labour - as if those areas are nothing to do with Tories responsibilities - has got me genuinely shocked. Fuck me, lets try a (very weird) bung, Tory habits die hard eh. Im not sure why this feels more outrageous than the DUP 1 Billion....maybe the open naming and defining of it as poorest areas, most desperate for the money. You wouldnt want people to become destitute would you? Better vote for my deal. Utter cunts
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SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
So where is Corbyn calling out this despicable behaviour? Of all the open goals...
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Yes I do think they should have continued that stance after the result.
Maybe it was a choice between electoral suicide or electoral hypocrisy.
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
I mean they're all politicians already, so they made that choice a long time ago.
ska invita
back on the other side
If that really was said at their meeting - and I cant find anything that says it actually was (anyone?) - then its a massive open goal. the only reporting ive seen is that lab mps are squabbling whether to accept the 'bribe' or not
not enough facepalms
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
May's bribe to Labour MPs from Leave-voting ("Northern") constituencies was reported here but it looks like the reported leak (?) was behind Murdoch's paywall.If that really was said at their meeting - and I cant find anything that says it actually was (anyone?) - then its a massive open goal. the only reporting ive seen is that lab mps are squabbling whether to accept the 'bribe' or not
CRI
Registered Chooser
Not that the Tories or Labour seem to give a shit about the illegal actions impacting on the wafer-thin referendum result, but . . .
U.K. Regulator Fines Pro-Brexit Group and Banks-Linked Insurer
U.K. Regulator Fines Pro-Brexit Group and Banks-Linked Insurer
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I just want to be clear on this: you think that it should have been the policy of the Labour Party, after the referendum had taken place, to overturn the result of the referendum?
I’m not talking here about whether they, as individuals or collectively, regretted the result, but that they should have had a stated policy to overturn the referendum result, and that’s your advice to the Labour Party?
I mean, I think that’s problematic.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
SpookyFrank
Float like a caterpillar, sting like a tree
Some real banana republic shit this.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Oligarchs are perfectly happy for public money* to be spunked on behalf of their interests.
*that they don't have to contribute to
ska invita
back on the other side
Its hard to tell from that if it was actually said at the meeting to Corbyns face...id guess not. Hard to tell from the reporting.
a very british all above board bung...british corruption is a well oiled machine - envy of the world
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
She can't stiff the DUP because thats the slim majority gone. What guarantee have any potential labour rebels got? Have to be a mug to go for it unless its part of a wider attempt to fuck the party in general.
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