As a fairly hard Brexiteer I've got no problem with staying in the customs union, but staying in the EEA just feels like Remaining by any other name, especially if we have to accept freedom of movement as a condition of EEA membership. It would be the worst of all possible worlds.
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
As a fairly hard Brexiteer I've got no problem with staying in the customs union, but staying in the EEA just feels like Remaining by any other name, especially if we have to accept freedom of movement as a condition of EEA membership. It would be the worst of all possible worlds.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The geography of the zionist entity is political
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Some Thatcher loving old git I was talking to yesterday was giving it all the old fuck’em rhetoric. I told him he was an anarchist. Perhaps plenty of leave voters could be described as thus although many would need to look the word up in the dictionary. 
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
How come the issue of the Irish border 'crisis' is being presented as a surprise ? Surely it was a blindingly obvious problem from before the referendum was even called.
One of the many, many issues that should've been discussed in public and at length before or even during the referendum, but was glossed over in favour of soundbites and dog-whistling.
Some Thatcher loving old git I was talking to yesterday was giving it all the old fuck’em rhetoric. I told him he was an anarchist. Perhaps plenty of leave voters could be described as thus although many would need to look the word up in the dictionary.
Ah yes, the old "all Leave voters are stupid" argument. Nothing like insulting 52% of the population at a stroke, is there?
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Leaving the EU was never up for a serious discussion. It was always an emotional thing. Both for leavers & remainers. The referendum was offered by Cameron because he thought he would lose votes to UKIP if he did not. It was always just a knee jerk thing. It had to be I suppose because any serious discussion would have become bogged down by entrenched opposite veiws?
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Read the post again. Yes he is a Thatcher loving old git & a racist. His politics is at polar opposites to mine. And yet the anarchist part of me that has always been there recognises the anarchy in him & many of the leave voters. They are angry about their lives & angry about the successive governments that have done them down. They are still happy to leave the EU. They do not care about the consequences. They would be happy for anarchy to reign. However I do doubt many would even know the meaning of the word.Ah yes, the old "all Leave voters are stupid" argument. Nothing like insulting 52% of the population at a stroke, is there?
This is why as I have mentioned previously I doubt there was much in the referendum campaign that would have changed minds. Those who voted leave had made their minds up decades ago.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
there is no solution to the irish border issue other than the whole of the UK staying in the customs union or crashing out with no deal - and a hard border. The latter will cause massive problems in northern ireland. Moving to a "sea border" (where NI stays in the single market but the rest of UK stays out) will be blocked by the DUP and violently opposed by their supporters.
yes another brexit inspired "all pain no gain scenario". I definitely think that a large section of the british establishment is desperately trying to find a way to extract the UK from brexit without a political meltdown.
For the pro-brexit faction it has nothing to do with nationalism, reducing immigration or taking back control - they see it as on opportunity to drive down wages and shred employment and H&S regulations so the UK can compete with china, Vietnam and indonesia via sweatshop conditions and an oligarch friendly tax regime. whatever the lexit vision of brexit - and the inequities of the international pooling of neo-liberal wankery that is the EU - that is the only brexit on offer.
yes another brexit inspired "all pain no gain scenario". I definitely think that a large section of the british establishment is desperately trying to find a way to extract the UK from brexit without a political meltdown.
For the pro-brexit faction it has nothing to do with nationalism, reducing immigration or taking back control - they see it as on opportunity to drive down wages and shred employment and H&S regulations so the UK can compete with china, Vietnam and indonesia via sweatshop conditions and an oligarch friendly tax regime. whatever the lexit vision of brexit - and the inequities of the international pooling of neo-liberal wankery that is the EU - that is the only brexit on offer.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
There is a third option- IRexit and a return to the Punt. I'm dreaming I know
Fuck off with that one....if it's what I think you mean....
Ireland leaves just to keep the brits happy?
Yeah......
No
Fuck off with that one....if it's what I think you mean....
Ireland leaves just to keep the brits happy?
Yeah......
No
No I meant Ireland leaves for the benefit of both nations. We've got far more in common than we have apart, surely?
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Arlene Foster (DUP leader) quoted yesterday as saying they will not countenance any deal in which NI is treated differently to rest of UK. So that’s a no.
This is another major May fuck up. There probably was a solution with the UK staying in CU and not being in FM (like Turkey). By making clear early on that we are leaving CU she has created impossible situation.
It’s looking more and more likely that we are going to crash out with no deal. Or the government somehow falls - not sure how.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I simply can't imagine why the eu and its public supporters in this country and ireland would seek to manufacture then escalate an issue that could be presented as potentially blocking brexit and developing an image of ongoing and insurmountable chaos meaning the only option is to void the referendum results. It's beyond me.How come the issue of the Irish border 'crisis' is being presented as a surprise ? Surely it was a blindingly obvious problem from before the referendum was even called.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
No.....why the fuck should we leave for the benefit of britain?
Are you for real?
The EU made Ireland....it did more for the country since 1973 than the brits EVER did....it would not be mutually beneficial for Ireland to leave just to keep the Brits happy because it would leave us completely broke and with no real support from britain apart from a thank you note.....so...no...
Ireland needs to stay in the eu for it's own good....
Eta...Ireland was fucked over by britain repeatedly.
Don't ever think that the country will trust britain. There is a political civility and relative peace but feelings run very quiet and very deep and historically every family in Ireland has paid the price of independence from britain with blood.
There is no way that will ever be forgotten....and there is no way we will go back to being part of a united kingdom even if it's only for monetary / trade reasons.
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Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
Just to be pedantic, we can be in a CU, but not the CU. A CU would be fine, though. Very easy to negotiate, as long as we have regulatory convergence. So we’d be leaving the CU whatever flavour of soft Brexit happened.
bimble
floofy
So its not a real problem at all just a manufactured one. ok.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Because it's actually a simple issue, easy to resolve by
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Do you know if politicians have been carefully talking about *the* customs union to leave them wiggle room?
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
It’s a nice idea but you have to wonder if they have the subtlety, cunning, understanding or foresight to do anything like that.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Manufactured in the sense that the whole of Brexit is.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You asked why is it suddenly an issue - i offered a compelling suggestion as to why. Why does something that - as you point out - has been known about since the whistle went suddenly become an issue? Maybe it's just silly brexiters?
Of course this faux-ignorance as to what is going on, who is doing it and why is part of the plan to either create or project an image of chaos that can only be overcome by overturning the results of the referendum. This stuff seems to make up 80% of the entire internet now.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
“Manufacture”. The GFA and the Irish border. A “manufactured” issue. Escalated by those crafty remainers. Nothing real there.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
Lexit is so ridiculous that it has soi-disant anarchists talking piously about “overturning the results of the referendum” as if it would be the greatest anti-democratic horror.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
...and here we have the supercilious wing of the army, as opposed to the blimey, what's going on here can someone explain it to little old me wing.
It was, sadly.
You are probably right. It's a real shame because I believe the British and Irish working classes are essentially one people who have been fucked over by the Church, the Aristocracy and latterly by modern capitalism.
We have far more in common than we have apart but I think the ship has sailed and is somewhere over the next horizon sadly.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
Which church?
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
Im not talking about the ordinary british people....The politicians and monarchy are the ones who fucked over Ireland for centuries. And there's no reason to believe that they wont do it again.
bimble
floofy
butchersapron your constant refrain of 'You know this' is (in my case at least) mistaken. I get your point though in answer to my question of why its being presented as a sudden surprise problem.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Supercilious brexit, meet supercilious bremain. Have you met before? I'm sure you have plenty to talk about.
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