Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[not-bono-ever]

"Brexit means Brexit" innit. Now we can't have a City of Culture, we'll have to think of something else to bring in the tourists, like affordable hotels, friendly locals or even good cooking.

Hmmmm...could be a problem there

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If the UK carries on playing the EU's game,

By 'the UK', you mean this tory administration. You are making common purpose with May, Johnson, Davis et al.

 

[2hats]

it will be fucked.

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing.

 

[not-bono-ever]

The UK is fucked whatever route opens up for us.

/ scowling miserable wanker

 

[SpackleFrog]

By 'the UK', you mean this tory administration. You are making common purpose with May, Johnson, Davis et al.

You've used "we" several times in this thread to mean Britain, so you're guilty of the same.

 

[Pickman's model]

You've used "we" several times in this thread to mean Britain, so you're guilty of the same.

yeh yer man's urban's greatest hypocrite: and an arch-liberal, to boot.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

By 'the UK', you mean this tory administration. You are making common purpose with May, Johnson, Davis et al.

No, I mean the UK. We were told explicitly what the EU would do and now they are doing it. The Tory administration are the ones who seem blind to that and content to bumble along until March 2019 when we turn in to one of the hundreds of other non-EU countries in the world, except we don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with being a non-EU country cos we spend the past two years playing games with Junker, Barnier, Tusk et al.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, I mean the UK. We were told explicitly what the EU would do and now they are doing it. The Tory administration are the ones who seem blind to that and content to bumble along until March 2019 when we turn in to one of the hundreds of other non-EU countries in the world, except we don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with being a non-EU country cos we spend the past two years playing games with Junker, Barnier, Tusk et al.

pissing the time away

 

[Winot]

The EU state that trade can not be discussed until the Irish border issue is resolved, but as the issue with the border is how to trade across it, that problem can't be resolved until trade is discussed.

David Davis agreed to this order of discussion (sequencing as it is called). After claiming earlier in the year it would be the 'row of the summer'.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

David Davis agreed to this order of discussion (sequencing as it is called). After claiming earlier in the year it would be the 'row of the summer'.

Yeah, another fucking moronic imbecile in the Tory cabinet, who knew?

 

[Winot]

If I was a Leaver I'd be fucking furious at the inept way the Tories have handled this.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

For those who have forgotten:

The man who took on the EU has destroyed Theresa May's Brexit tactics

Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis has described Theresa May’s Brexit negotiation tactics as "precisely wrong".

Mr Varoufakis, who in 2015 attempted to negotiate a settlement for Greece with the European Union, said the PM's main problems in the talks would stem from bureaucratic practices in Brussels, combined with a "technocracy that is desperately clinging on to its own exorbitant illegitimate power".

Britain will have to be made an example of, any recalcitrant government that steps outside the modus vivendi will be crushed. You are going against a combination of a bureaucracy in Brussels and politicians who feel the ground under their feet is increasingly brittle, like Angela Merkel.

Cor, it's like he's got a crystal ball.

 

[pocketscience]

However you view it this is a mean spirited act that shows what a bunch of cunts the EU are. There was no need to add this to the mix at all. It will achieve nothing. Unless the EU believe they have the power to redraw the map of the world then best they rename it the EU city of culture.

I bet it's part of the stuff they're arguing the UK signed up and committed to, to justify their 50-100 billion divorce bill.

 

[Fingers]

Does anyone know which reports are coming out on Wednesday? I have heard rumours within the party (and at this point they are rumours) that if the reports show massive economic damage to the country Labour will take a hard revoke Article 50 stance.

I expected them to do this as some point and with the withdrawal date fast approaching it is now or never I guess. All about playing the long game whilst this Tories tear themselves apart.

 

[RainbowTown]

What's "still on the cards"?Junker and Barnier threatening to hold Poland to its EU obligations? Or the other states in the area to dismantle their barbed wire fences and treat refugees like human beings?
If anything has become glaringly obvious of late, it's the EUs obsession with money, wringing the last pound of flesh from Greece and sticking us for as much as they can get, while voicing hypocritical 'concerns' about citizens rights and the Irish border.

I voted remain.

However, the decision went the other way and, yes, I was disappointed for a couple of days or so. After that, well, my attitude was, the vote's been had now, so let's try to forge ahead and make the best deal we can. For all concerned. The UK and Europe. Bitching and moaning, hissy fits and threats won't help anyone, I thought.

Boy was I wrong.

First off, I have no time for May and The Crony Party. She is inept, a lightweight Prime Minister, totally out of her depth and leading a party of dangerous jokers. Sadly, the opposition parties are no better. And all this combined, hasn't helped the Brexit process, that's for sure. But, hey, we're stuck with them, the lot of them for the next few years, so let's try and make the best of out a very bad lot (hard, I know, but there you go).

And yet....the more I see of the EU, or rather it's Orwellian leaders and shakers, the more obvious it's becoming: they are truly worse than any party in Westminster. They are twisting the knife as much as they can, whilst flashing smiles that can't betray their contempt and loathing of what's occurred. Ego and greed and vanity seem to rule their reasoning. Far more than any political party here. Bullying too. Observe them closely and you'll see a kind of cruel relish in the way they've operated since the UK vote. And there's one very good reason for that: fear.

They fear other European countries may leave, if the UK does happen (by some chance) to make a success of it. So their solution? Make it as hard as possible for them (the UK) so that we (the EU) can send out a chilling message; try to upset the cattle cart and this is what you'll get. We'll make things extremely difficult indeed. It's a classic bully boy tactic. And as time's gone on, it's become more and more clear. Even to a Remain voter like myself. It's all very unedifying and counter productive. Europe is already heading into a volatile future as it stands, and as such, we can all do without the vindictiveness and recriminations that seem to be fouling the air. From all sides.

 

[Dr. Furface]

If I was a Leaver I'd be fucking furious at the inept way the Tories have handled this.

Why only Leave voters?!

 

[Winot]

Why only Leave voters?!

Well I took it as read that Remainers are already furious.

 

[Raheem]

However you view it this is a mean spirited act that shows what a bunch of cunts the EU are. There was no need to add this to the mix at all. It will achieve nothing. Unless the EU believe they have the power to redraw the map of the world then best they rename it the EU city of culture.

Unbelievable. They're a bunch of punishy cunts aren't they? Next thing you know they'll be saying Brexit means they'll stop sending us farm subsidies and we won't be able to take our turn with the rotating EU presidency thing any more.

 

[alex_]

No, I mean the UK. We were told explicitly what the EU would do and now they are doing it. The Tory administration are the ones who seem blind to that and content to bumble along until March 2019 when we turn in to one of the hundreds of other non-EU countries in the world, except we don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with being a non-EU country cos we spend the past two years playing games with Junker, Barnier, Tusk et al.

And come March 2019, it’ll be

“these people we told you we couldn’t trust, it turns out that we couldn’t trust them, how could we possibly have predicted that you couldn’t trust the people we told you you couldn’t trust !!”

Twats

Alex

 

[Raheem]

It's open to EFTA members as well; there is still time to sneak back in.

Or, by 2023 maybe we'll be eligible as a candidate country.

 

[sleaterkinney]

They fear other European countries may leave, if the UK does happen (by some chance) to make a success of it. So their solution? Make it as hard as possible for them (the UK) so that we (the EU) can send out a chilling message; try to upset the cattle cart and this is what you'll get. We'll make things extremely difficult indeed. It's a classic bully boy tactic. And as time's gone on, it's become more and more clear. Even to a Remain voter like myself. It's all very unedifying and counter productive. Europe is already heading into a volatile future as it stands, and as such, we can all do without the vindictiveness and recriminations that seem to be fouling the air. From all sides.

How would making it easy to leave and giving good terms help to keep the EU together?. There has to be a negative to not being in it.

 

[elbows]

Perhaps people were expecting a leaving present, a card with kind words and maybe a messy pub crawl.

 

[RainbowTown]

How would making it easy to leave and giving good terms help to keep the EU together?. There has to be a negative to not being in it.

I didn't say the EU should make it easy to leave.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I didn't say the EU should make it easy to leave.

You said their behaviour was very unedifying and counter productive.

 

[gosub]

Or, by 2023 maybe we'll be eligible as a candidate country.

NO TOAST!

 

[RainbowTown]

You said their behaviour was very unedifying and counter productive.

It is. That doesn't mean to say the UK should leave with a golden handshake. Not at all. And, of course, negotiations will be tough and at times hard fought. That's understandable. And expected. But my own view is I'm seeing more than that here; I'm seeing a spite, a vindictiveness permeating throughout the EU leadership.An intransigence and arrogance. A sense of 'we'll teach them a lesson for doing this.' And I'm saying this as one who voted to remain. But sometimes, organisations (like people) show their true colours when unmasked. And I now regard Juncker and co with real disdain and contempt. Even more so than I do with the Tory part here.

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm seeing a spite, a vindictiveness permeating throughout the EU leadership.An intransigence and arrogance.

So not unlike the UK's behaviour towards the EEC / EC / EU for the last 40-odd years then.

 

[RainbowTown]

So not unlike the UK's behaviour towards the EEC / EC / EU for the last 40-odd years then.

Ah, the hackneyed, cliched blame game circus rolls into view. What would the world be without it?

(A whole lotter better).

Look, all European countries were playing the same game in some form or another. It's so last season now.

 

[Smangus]

The EU is a monolith institution the nature of which makes it niegh on impossible to get an agreement within the proposed time frame. 27 parliments have to agree a deal. Within those there are some that have regional assemblies that have to agree a deal also before the national parliament can. Then there are those with specific interests that will use brexit for their own leverage eg Spain and the Gibraltar question. Why is anyone surprised it's not going to plan? The eu is sticking to its stated agenda and order of battle which is not to the UK's liking. No fucking shit Sherlock.

 

[sealion]

If I was a Leaver I'd be fucking furious at the inept way the Tories have handled this.

Do you think Labour would be able to do better ?