Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[mauvais]

Revise their cars

It is a revision. Normally this happens incrementally but Dieselgate has introduced a more rapid change requirement.

VW Group hit hard by new WLTP emissions test | Autocar

Most manufacturers have had to do something, e.g. introduce a GPF, but this stuff isn't some fatal downturn. If you were a supplier with cash flow issues it might put you further into the shit, but it doesn't seem to explain why Schaeffler are pulling out.

 

[pocketscience]

If they fail the exam they're literally done for

nah, a slight revision to their PR strategy, job done. Temporary corporate image damage restored, just in time supply chain back to full capacity.
Those diesels will be flying out of the showroons in no time. Nothing to see here.

 

[butchersapron]

nah, a slight revision to their PR strategy, job done. Temporary corporate image damage restored, just in time supply chain back to full capacity.
Those diesels will be flying out of the showroons in no time. Nothing to see here.

You wouldn't be suggesting that all the above is PRO-EU signal boosting naivety/ignorance would you? Or that this is all the poster concerns seems to ever do.

I hope that he likes the way the EU are going to Make Ireland Pay For The Wall.

 

[William of Walworth]

Breaking news from BBC, which could belong more in the 'Tory Death Spiral' thread but anyway :

Minister Jo Johnson quits over Brexit

"calling for public to have fresh say on Brexit" apparantly

I offer no comment, but I just thought Brexit-thread people might be mildly interested ....

 

[butchersapron]

Breaking news from BBC, which could belong more in the 'Tory Death Spiral' thread but anyway :

Minister Jo Johnson quits over Brexit

"calling for public to have fresh say on Brexit" apparantly

I offer no comment, but I just thought Brexit-thread people might be mildly interested ....

Blimey - pro eu elitist demands situation to suit what they want.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Not Boris, the other one

To those who say that is an affront to democracy given the 2016 result, I ask this. Is it more democratic to rely on a three year old vote based on what an idealised Brexit might offer, or to have a vote based on what we know it does actually entail?

Why I cannot support the Government’s proposed Brexit deal

 

[Calamity1971]

Minister Jo Johnson quits over Brexit

 

[William of Walworth]

Blimey - pro eu elitist demands situation to suit what they want.

True. I'm not claiming it's a major story or big shock or anything ....

 

[butchersapron]

Going to do the lining up with argument this time you lot?

 

[William of Walworth]

Why I cannot support the Government’s proposed Brexit deal

Not sure why his statement appears on that site , but worth a look, because it shows what Jo Johnson actually says.

 

[William of Walworth]

Going to do the lining up with argument this time you lot?

Nah -- can't be arsed and the pub's more important anyway ... got to go out

 

[pocketscience]

It is a revision. Normally this happens incrementally but Dieselgate has introduced a more rapid change requirement.

VW Group hit hard by new WLTP emissions test | Autocar

Most manufacturers have had to do something, e.g. introduce a GPF, but this stuff isn't some fatal downturn. If you were a supplier with cash flow issues it might put you further into the shit, but it doesn't seem to explain why Schaeffler are pulling out.

you're having a laugh. Most SME's in the german automotive supply chain are shitting their pants right now. The first wave of insolvency is underway from parts suppliers to leasing companies.
The only upside is development engineering for new EVs, where german manufacturers are woefully behind their main competators and find themselves to panic mode playing catch-up.
Lets face it, their image is in tatters and whether they manage to claw back their reputation for premium quality products is doubtful at best.
Would you buy a new VW?

 

[pocketscience]

You present it as if annual sales are down by a third. .

Did I? How so?

 

[pocketscience]

You wouldn't be suggesting that all the above is PRO-EU signal boosting naivety/ignorance would you? Or that this is all the poster concerns seems to ever do.

I hope that he likes the way the EU are going to Make Ireland Pay For The Wall.

Would love to have seen the EU affording the same blind optimism to those tax cheating greeks (thanks for cooking the books Helmut) that may have hurt a couple of german banks that mauvais is giving those german car manufacturers who's cheating is literally poisoning us.

 

[Wilf]

Minister Jo Johnson quits over Brexit

I'm still thinking a deal will be agreed and the deal will be voted through Parliament, largely on the grounds that enough tories will vote for it (on grounds of self interest, May's desperation to get it through etc.). However the house of cards is certainly wobbling. ONe big resignation or a couple of middle ranking ministers and it really does look precarious.

 

[mauvais]

you're having a laugh. Most SME's in the german automotive supply chain are shitting their pants right now. The first wave of insolvency is underway from parts suppliers to leasing companies.
The only upside is development engineering for new EVs, where german manufacturers are woefully behind their main competators and find themselves to panic mode playing catch-up.
Lets face it, their image is in tatters and whether they manage to claw back their reputation for premium quality products is doubtful at best.
Would you buy a new VW?

I wouldn't have bought one of the group's cars before any of this, I think they're best described as cynical. Doesn't seem to have put anyone else off at all really, except maybe Americans where VW has always meant something different & distinctly less premium.

I've not much love at all for German automotive manufacturers, quite the opposite, but I think you're overstating the case significantly. Unfortunately in a predictable absence of punishment, VW profits recovered entirely (11bn EUR pa) since Dieselgate and only now are slipping somewhat because of WLTP. If anything there's bigger timebomb stuff going on like their long-established European discounting in order to turn the screw on their competitors.

All of this is obviously a particularly dull tangent, but the point is the British automotive industry is making loads of noise about Brexit not because of one manufacturer's supposed troubles but because global manufacturers primarily bothered to set up in foreign regions (e.g. Japanese factories in the EU) to avoid paying import charges, and if that condition ceases to be true, they'll need to move again unless Britain is somehow that important a market (spoiler alert: it ain't). So it is fairly predictable that uncertainty means they'll all fuck off if forced to make commitments.

 

[Calamity1971]

I'm still thinking a deal will be agreed and the deal will be voted through Parliament, largely on the grounds that enough tories will vote for it (on grounds of self interest, May's desperation to get it through etc.). However the house of cards is certainly wobbling. ONe big resignation or a couple of middle ranking ministers and it really does look precarious.

I don't know anywhere near enough to comment on this thread. I, like William of Walworth wasn't sure whether or not to put it here or the tory death spiral thread. All I do know is any sort of wobble with that lot makes me smile.

 

[redsquirrel]

Hur yeah stupid people.

They deserve it the idiots. Probably old and racist too.

 

[SpackleFrog]

They deserve it the idiots. Probably old and racist too.

YEAH.

Fucking scum

How dare they live and work somewhere that voted Leave?

 

[butchersapron]

They deserve it the idiots. Probably old and racist too.

Nor did they have the nous to benefit from modern conditions as set by the eu. Bye. I'm off on my erasmus. Whatever that is.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I'm still thinking a deal will be agreed and the deal will be voted through Parliament, largely on the grounds that enough tories will vote for it (on grounds of self interest, May's desperation to get it through etc.). However the house of cards is certainly wobbling. ONe big resignation or a couple of middle ranking ministers and it really does look precarious.

the fact she is still trying to bounce the DUP into accepting a deal which could end up with an Irish sea border is telling (it wont - apparently - because she wont let that happen. honest ) indicates that she cant get a deal past her own mps. Shes just keeps going round in circles.
I cant think how she will get a deal through parliament.
The only deal the EU will accept - her own mps wont.
The only deal her mps will accept - the EU wont.

 

[William of Walworth]

mauvais post up there has more actual interest than the above 3 posts**? Maybe?

**13662 to 13664

 

[Kaka Tim]

Jo Johnson has helpfully crystalised the framing of the debate.
Its "vassalage or chaos" vs 2nd ref (or GE)

May survival is dependant on enough mps buying her threat that its her deal or crashing out. Johnson (J) is certainly not alone in rejecting that as a false choice.

As has been pointed out above - any deal that the EU agree to will be shit, demonstrably shitter than what the uk has already and nobody but May loyalists is going to be defending it.
The remain supporting media will take Johnson's position.
The brexit media will call may deal a betrayal.
Labour will vote against. The tory brexiteers will vote against. The tory arch remainers will vote against.

May will resign. A50 will be suspended.

A 2nd ref gives parliament a bit more democratic defence that just calling the whole thing off

The tory brexiteers can blame May and the establishment for sabotaging brexit from the start. they can call for a no deal crash out, knowing that it wont happen but leaving them with the ideological purity intact.
the labour party can blame May for making an utter fuck up of it leaving no option but to suspend A50 or face armageddon whilst arguing that they did their best to respect the ref result but weren't in power.

2nd ref may be bitterly resented by a big chunk of the brexit voting population - but id argue that the toxic legacy of brexit goes back to having a referendum on the first place which allowed people to vote for something that was impossible to deliver.

But then we have the very real possibility that leave wins a 2nd referendum - and oh the joys that will bring.

 

[ska invita]

Jo Johnson has helpfully crystalised the framing of the debate.
Its "vassalage or chaos" vs 2nd ref (or GE)

May survival is dependant on enough mps buying her threat that its her deal or crashing out. Johnson (J) is certainly not alone in rejecting that as a false choice.

As has been pointed out above - any deal that the EU agree to will be shit, demonstrably shitter than what the uk has already and nobody but May loyalists is going to be defending it.
The remain supporting media will take Johnson's position.
The brexit media will call may deal a betrayal.
Labour will vote against. The tory brexiteers will vote against. The tory arch remainers will vote against.

May will resign. A50 will be suspended.

A 2nd ref gives parliament a bit more democratic defence that just calling the whole thing off

The tory brexiteers can blame May and the establishment for sabotaging brexit from the start. they can call for a no deal crash out, knowing that it wont happen but leaving them with the ideological purity intact.
the labour party can blame May for making an utter fuck up of it leaving no option but to suspend A50 or face armageddon whilst arguing that they did their best to respect the ref result but weren't in power.

2nd ref may be bitterly resented by a big chunk of the brexit voting population - but id argue that the toxic legacy of brexit goes back to having a referendum on the first place which allowed people to vote for something that was impossible to deliver.

But then we have the very real possibility that leave wins a 2nd referendum - and oh the joys that will bring.

Worth remembering that for all their opposition Corbyns position is also Vassal 2.0. I think at this stage id rather Vassal than second ref. Meaningful Brexit has to be chaos crash out and I'm sceptical that will be anything other than a round of disaster capitalism. Might be wrong though.

I expect general election rather than second ref, that seems to be what is being prepared for (corbyn meeting MI6 yesterday, the budget etc)

 

[chilango]

They continue to lead in the polls.

They continue to be ahead of the other parties in the game sure.

That's not saying as much as sometimes people say it is.

 

[butchersapron]

Worth remembering that for all their opposition Corbyns position is also Vassal 2.0. I think at this stage id rather Vassal than second ref. Meaningful Brexit has to be chaos crash out and I'm sceptical that will be anything other than a round of disaster capitalism. Might be wrong though.

I expect general election rather than second ref, that seems to be what is being prepared for (corbyn meeting MI6 yesterday, the budget etc)

Hang on - remainers like you are now anti-vassalage? The whole point of remaining is vasselage. A people's vassalage.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Good to see a Remoaner showing compassion for those whose livelihoods are threatened by the laws of capitalist development and making an impassioned call to nationalise these two car plants under democratic workers control, in order that both jobs and productive capacity can be kept within the community for generations to come...

Oh no wait it's just someone being a cunt on Twitter.

Astonishing intellectual dishonesty on show here. The 'laws of capitalist development' *created* the jobs. The decision to leave the SM is destroying them - as the CEO's statement made clear. You also havent explained how nationalisation and democratic ownership is going to help with the problem of parts that have a collapsing export market, because nobody on the continent in their right mind will want to pay a tariff surcharge for parts stuck in a lorry park with unknown ETA...

 

[butchersapron]

Astonishing intellectual honesty on show here. The market decides and the market is right.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Astonishing intellectual dishonesty on show here. The 'laws of capitalist development' *created* the jobs. The decision to leave the SM is destroying them - as the CEO's statement made clear. You also havent explained how nationalisation and democratic ownership is going to help with the problem of parts that have a collapsing export market, because nobody on the continent in their right mind will want to pay a tariff surcharge for parts stuck in a lorry park with unknown ETA...

It's not my dishonesty so much as your stupidity comrade.

 

[Poi E]

So you can create jobs without workers. The wonders of capitalism never cease.