The two problems with that idea are that, first, Cameron expected to win and what exactly leaving meant would then have been an academic issue and, second, without a declaration of A50 and the subsequent negotiations, there wasn't and couldn't be anything clear about the sort of Brexit we would end up with.
Not sure its that worth getting into this as its too late now, but it would've been written by a group tory Brexiters (obvs not Cameron). Disagree about the A50 point. Obviously the negotiations would still have to take place but you can begin to set out the terrain and if the negotiations create a result that would have been substantially different from what people voted for in the original paper then it would clearly need to be revisited, with another referendum or other democratic process (within the commons).
"We should rely on the strength of working-class hostility towards the current regime in Britain and the current state of social affairs – which is very deep."
Then Scotland can remain in the EU.Could England take the Trident submarines, please? ktxbai
your simile all over the place
I’m taking from it that we need a fighting army that wears balaclavas.
literally no mention of the labour left rise and anti austerity opinion within and without it. Yes the labour left is what it is, let us list the flaws. I'm not here to hold them up, I'm pointing out that the monolithic 'we' you conjure doesn't exist. There is a successful party in the country opposed to austerity. This is a massive blind spot for every 'brexit is like trump' analyses I've read, just goes unmentioned. I mean, not even slagged off and dismissed as hopeless. Just not mentioned.
I support whats happening within the labour party. In fact im even - shoot me now - hopeful about it. To me its not about the party per se but a grassroots takeover of the party and I hope it comes to something. I'm not saying there is no resistance, of course there is. Its still a minority position though with massive weaknesses, and that needs to be recognised.
If there were to be a crash out and it were to cause some degree of chaos, who would benefit politically from that? My fear is that it would be the right that would benefit. An authoritarian right at that. And potentially not just in the UK but across Europe.
an authoritarian right? is there any other sort? as for the right doing well across europe, well, i can only assume you've not paid any attention to the right doing very nice in certain parts of europe for a number of years now.
I think this is charitable in the extreme - 'peculiar geography', indeed - but who the fuck didn't know this? It's the sort of thing you'd get for junior school homework - how do goods come into the UK?
...well there's been loads of blue sky thinking about trade deals with other countries being done in seconds and those new goods appearing magically, using other ports than Dover (which cant handle the capacity) etc.
I think you may need to have a quick check of the other ports currently operating in the UK.
if its a minority position why did so many millions vote for labours manifesto? Enough to get a hung parliament. We know the C-byn himself polls badly and his unlovely labour right cohorts can't be that inspiring. So weaknesses, yes, but stronger than its been in the last 30 years imo. So I disagree about the idea that 'we' are all full steam ahead supporting austerity. You mentioned 'voting for continuity, on the back of 40 years of the same direction.' so I wonder what direction of travel you saw britain with the EU continuing. More of the same, but labour supported austerity.
yeah fair enough, but its startling how often the labour party has to be ignored, or its voters downplayed numbers wise, for these arguments to work though. It actually goes hand in hand with not mentioning the rise of an electorally successful fascist right in the EU. And of course right back to the old one, sections of the left just giving up on the idea of a working class movement after thatcher and instead looking to the EU to be protector of liberties and all that nice stuff it doesn't actually do.
So are you up for Crash Out in March?
I'm not convinced the sky will fall if we do. Of course I may be wrong and PIRA would be leading the food riots, but I don't think crash out will happen. I may eat my words in march but I think we are headed for some muddled deal that pleases nobody
given the way the country's split that would be quite an achievement
Yep, that's definitely how to do politics. Tell everyone else how clueless they are about it.I totally disagree. Quite a lot of people on this thread are frankly clueless about politics in general and about the EU. I don't think you should assume that because you spend more time doing something, you neccessarily have it mastered.
I just finished playing football, play every week, always have since I stopped playing competitive sport (rugby). I'm still fucking shit tho
Proper fucking LOL
No. I tell people how bad I think brexit may be, and the process already has been. And I give the reasons why I think that, and also challenge ideas put forward by others regarding good things they may think come from it. That's not telling people they're clueless.
