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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?


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Just going full on pro austerity now then?

Your vision of an independent Scotland doesn't sound much fun :rolleyes:
I didn't mention Scotland.

I was talking about Italy. I mentioned how 3 of the 6 major EU positions are held by Italians, I pointed out that Italy is now proposing breaking the rules for a fourth consecutive year and has not proposed dealing with it's debt in any way when it's in a monetary union with other countries who would be negatively affected by this ridiculous budget proposal based on increased borrowing and debt.

As to why you and your hateful cunt of a mate thought it was relevant to bring up my nationality I'll keep my counsel.
 
I didn't mention Scotland.

I was talking about Italy. I mentioned how 3 of the 6 major EU positions are held by Italians, I pointed out that Italy is now proposing breaking the rules for a fourth consecutive year and has not proposed dealing with it's debt in any way when it's in a monetary union with other countries who would be negatively affected by this ridiculous budget proposal based on increased borrowing and debt.

As to why you and your hateful cunt of a mate thought it was relevant to bring up my nationality I'll keep my counsel.
If you really think that the fact that 3 members of the unelected EU Commission are Italian excuses overruling the manifesto commitments of the newly elected Italian government, as voted for by the actual Italian electorate, that just demonstrates how hollow and undemocratic your version of nationalism really is.

The same logic would suggest that if the head of the BofE and the judiciary were Scottish, they could overrule the elected Scottish government, though I doubt you be quite so easy going in that case
 
Cutting tax and increasing public spending is great when your house is in order. Look at Germany for example. Italy's debt is the second highest in the EU (way over 100% of output) and needs to be addressed.
So do you agree with the Coalition government's, and Labour opposition at the time, line that the cuts they introduced (are introducing) were necessary because of the financial crisis?
 
It is unprecedented because the EU let them get away with it the last 3 years without applying sanctions, whilst they continued to increase their debts without any reasonable plan to deal with it. Increasing the debt and increasing its percentage. The EU understands that the debt will increase but wants the percentage to reduce.

Cutting tax and increasing public spending is great when your house is in order. Look at Germany for example. Italy's debt is the second highest in the EU (way over 100% of output) and needs to be addressed.

But those unelected EU officials are a law unto themselves.

Especially the Central Bank President Draghi, the Foreign Policy President Mogherini and Parliament President Tajani. Who are all Italian, of course.
You have to be careful when talking about national debts. Debts have two aspects to them - the amount owed and the time frame within which it must be paid: in the case of govt gilts, the maturity date. Ignoring interest for a second, you can essentially divide the one by the other to work out what kind of hole (if any kind) you are in. Whom you owe is also crucial. Without national debt, people's pensions would be in deep shit. So Japan topples along with a national debt of around 200% output, most of it owed to Japanese people. It still functions. Meanwhile, the UK's national debt has a really long average maturity of somewhere around 15 years, again large chunks of it owed to British people. In Italy, a whopping 70 per cent is owed to Italians, one of the highest rates.

Also, if the private sector isn't borrowing, the public sector has to. Otherwise you end up with deflationary pressures and things tend to grind to a halt as the incentive to invest disappears.

In the case of Italy, it has refinanced its debt and extended maturity over the last few years. It isn't in danger of bankruptcy as its interest payments are going down, not up. Increasing public debt at this time of poor economic performance is perfectly reasonable, not irresponsible. Some would say that it would be stupid not to.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

ETA:

There are also a lot of smoke and mirrors around public/private debt. A govt can borrow money to build houses, for instance, paying it back over the decades with the rents it takes. Or it can get a private company to borrow the money and build the houses. In the first case, the debt is added to the 'national debt', but the state owns an asset at the end of it. In the second case, there is no public debt, only private, and the state owns nothing at the end of it. Headline figures of x% gdp national debt are meaningless without a lot more context. And looking only at public debt while ignoring private debt is also meaningless.
 
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This says that it was the unelected EU official who put in policies to help Italy.

Italy's position just now, according to the article, is strengthened by being in the EU.

My biggest concern (apart from the banks dumping bonds, QE and no mention of inflation) would be the fact that 70% of the debt is held internally, that's a lot of eggs in one basket.

But like I said, they're part of a bigger bloc.

Just makes brexit look worse tbh.
 
Agreed that public debt is nonsense (within reason), especially as the smokescreen for austerity. The oversimplification that some give as a reason for cutting public spending is inane. The Germans do have some sort of pathological thing about it, and they keep being trotted out as an example to follow. No-one seems to mention Japan. Damn them for their high living standards and long lifespans - it must be in spite of that crippling debt. Yes, that's it.

Thankfully for the countries in the Eurozone, the French will only put up with so much of that bullshit before they tell Germany to keep their opinions to themselves.

There's nothing wrong with internal debt. Particularly in the case of pensions and Brexit. They can't leave with the money, they have to spend it back into the economy. There, I've said something positive about leaving the EU.
 
My biggest concern (apart from the banks dumping bonds, QE and no mention of inflation) would be the fact that 70% of the debt is held internally, that's a lot of eggs in one basket.
Nah, that's a strength not a weakness. It's a country writing an iou to itself essentially. A trick of accounting. A lot of the debate around debt has things the wrong way around. First you look at what it is you want to do. Then you look for the mechanism to finance it - the system of obligations you need to set up to make these things happen. You don't look at the mechanism and think what you might or might not be able to do. That isn't even coherent really - finance exists for us; we don't exist for finance.

Hence some of the tensions in the eurozone. Who is the 'us' that finance exists for within the eurozone? Without political and fiscal union, it appears to be more some countries than others.
 
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I didn't mention Scotland.

I was talking about Italy. I mentioned how 3 of the 6 major EU positions are held by Italians, I pointed out that Italy is now proposing breaking the rules for a fourth consecutive year and has not proposed dealing with it's debt in any way when it's in a monetary union with other countries who would be negatively affected by this ridiculous budget proposal based on increased borrowing and debt.

As to why you and your hateful cunt of a mate thought it was relevant to bring up my nationality I'll keep my counsel.

No one brought up your nationality!

I didnt say you mentioned Scotland. But it's interesting, isn't it, how you think countries which live beyond their means must assume spending controls. It does raise questions about what you think good economic model looks like.
 
Working through the promises and basis of Brexit.

Does anyone believe that the British border - inside Ireland - is like the London boroughs of Camden and Islignton?

That’s a Brexit view. He’s said it.
 
No one brought up your nationality!

I didnt say you mentioned Scotland. But it's interesting, isn't it, how you think countries which live beyond their means must assume spending controls. It does raise questions about what you think good economic model looks like.
Someone did bring up nationality - but it wasn't you or i. It was Dexter himself. Another masterpiece of close reading from him.
 
...And Liam Fox, and every other right wing bogie man who gets trotted out ad infinitum, obviously

The tories are the party that proposed this, and are running the negotiations.

All of it. It’s *all* theirs right now, with a small dash of DUP which will get rightfully trampled on shortly.

“Oh yeah, but that’s just them. It’s not about them”.
 
This was never proposed by a wide socialist movement.

It’s not a socialist initiative.

Even with the brutal gruel Greece got to eat, the outcome, when that happened - from socialists - was not “Britain should walk”.
 
The tories are the party that proposed this, and are running the negotiations.

All of it. It’s *all* theirs right now, with a small dash of DUP which will get rightfully trampled on shortly.

“Oh yeah, but that’s just them. It’s not about them”.
Neither Johnson or Fox are involved in negotiations any more, so posting shit they came out with a year or more ago is hardly insightful or useful at this stage.

Do you have anything to contribute which is actually relevant?
 
Someone is going to come along and say the referendum was actually socialiast led, and Cameron was just reflecting the will of the socialist movement.
 
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