DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
No insults for a month then, and I'll know you mean it
Is Brexit actually going to happen?
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Or he was lying on at least one occasionEven good old Tony was not always a fan
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The really insincere beard in 1983 gives that away; he looks like someone the Royalist cavalry have conscripted.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I think he was lying both times
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
Don't watch Friends. Bit too middle class for me.
Rather watch it than listen to your shite though
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Don't watch Friends. Bit too middle class for me.
Rather watch it than listen to your shite though
Ahhh, c'mon, if I'm not insulting you you can't insult me.
How is Friends middle class?
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Hey, I haven't insulted you yet! Typical remainer eh, always claiming the worst has happened before it actually has
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
I can assure you your threat was an insult and won't be forgotten, I've been here 14 years and it was a first.Hey, I haven't insulted you yet! Typical remainer eh, always claiming the worst has happened before it actually has
And you call me a remainer but I'm all for Scottish independence and brexit would be the best thing for us. Why would I want my friends down south to commit an act of self harm?
Like others I voice strong concerns about the effects of brexit and the lack of any coherent target or strategy.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Gunther is the only working class character in Friends, and I suspect he is petty bourgeoisie anyway.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
Please explain the realities to us, professor. If not for us unworthy scab types, but the lay reader who may be convinced by your erudite arguments.
It's complex. OK.
DO indulge us.
I do enjoy when people do the whole ad hom thing... quoting years old posts etc. - it just proves they have fuck all interesting to say on the matter at hand and know it full well.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'd like to hear an answer to this too. And I'd also like to hear why, if people can't answer this, they still think brexit is worth all this shit. What is brexit for?
For some here, it was retribution for Greece/ECB austerity.
Will Greece benefit from Brexit?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well one thing we can know quite confidently is that Greece was not a factor in the vote of the vast majority of people who voted for brexit. I would go further and wager that a majority of those who paid attention to and were disgusted by what was done to Greece by the EU voted remain.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Well it turned out when someone made an effort to break up one of the most densely populated parts of Scotland up that the vote was very close indeed in poorer parts of Glasgow. The highland region of Scotland was 45 leave, you can’t make anything of that really cause the highlands is a massive area of small towns separated by lots of land, who knows which were toffs and which were working class folks, we all live on top of each other generally, it doesn’t work the way London does. But in my experience the leave voters were WC. I am from the capital of the highlands Invershnekie. Orkney(where I now live) was heavily remain, of course it was middle class haven it is! Then there’s the fact Scotland already had an anti status quo bus and that was Yes and after the ref they all backed SNP as they saw it as their strongest hand for Indy 2. Which had a similar effect to Corbynism probs, a lot of agro if you happened to vote SNP but questioned any part of their policies, that sort of thing.
Yes was pro remain really, a lot of people thought voting remain would trigger Indy 2 before the ref even. And Nicola said after brexit “come all you English remain voters, move to Scotland! Your progressiveness is very welcome here” etc. But as I outlined in another post what you aren’t hearing is that there aren’t as many Scottish remain voters waving the EU flag as it may appear, it will be interesting to see what comes out if Indy 2 is called, I do hope the original spirit of Yes will prevail but it’s not looking hopeful!
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
I would think poorer boroughs in places like London and Glasgow more likely to be in regular contact with a lot of lefty groups, movements etc. I would think it would just be harder to be pro leave in that environment, more kind of remain nose holding stuff. I’m just throwing that out there, I don’t know. I’m rural as fuck as I said! I did wonder if in Scotland given it’s small population it was kind of central belt leading the vote, but to be honest I haven’t counted it all up.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Most of London had a big majority remain across social classes. Ethnic minorities massively remain as well. Not cos they are pro-European, but far more because they are anti-anti-immigrant types.
All the polls suggest very strongly that anti-immigration sentiment was the single most important issue in leave voting. It was certainly the one single issue that UKIP wanted people focused on. That matters because, while immigration wasn't on the ballot paper, the result has been interpreted as one that is demanding a reduction of net immigration into the UK. This matters because anyone wishing to navigate from here towards a socialist, or even a socialistish, future needs to show how they think we can get from here to there. I see only the other direction - brexit simply mirroring the drift towards vile, racist r/w populism as is seen in other parts of the EU and outside the EU: brexit is just how that trend has manifested itself here, cos we had a referendum, basically, out of the folly of the arrogant govt that didn't even dream that it might lose.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
The polls don’t strongly suggest that and UKIP only ever had 15 per cent of the vote, which collapsed after brexit.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I meant since then! Look, I'm sorry. I felt you were pretty rude the other night but it was a very silly thing to say in response.
We can agree on Scottish independence at least - although I doubt any British govt is gonna give another referendum any time soon.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Tell you what, I'll indulge you when you decide to be polite.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
To be clearer, lord Ashcroft poll said immigration top concern for one third of leave voters and that other large poll which was widely shared here- which summed up its results in an odd selective way- said immigration was top reason for ALL voters. It then went on to say all those older working class voters where a bit racist but I couldn’t find the data they actually printed to back that up.
Guess what, I’ve no idea what poll that was now though
Usual nonsense from a deluded remainiac, "vile, racist" blah blah blah
Most of the vileness has come from the remain side from what ive seen
You only have to look at some of the comments on here to see that.
The one thing this vote has shown is that a section of this country seem to think they are special and know it all and think they know what is best for everybody.
This vote has shaken them to the core and they cant handle it.
The one thing im sure of the country will never be the same again.
Most of the vileness has come from the remain side from what ive seen
You only have to look at some of the comments on here to see that.
The one thing this vote has shown is that a section of this country seem to think they are special and know it all and think they know what is best for everybody.
This vote has shaken them to the core and they cant handle it.
The one thing im sure of the country will never be the same again.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Enough influence to tip the vote. Way more than 15 per cent of leave voters cited immigration as a top concern in polls afterwards. And the media was saturated with little but in the lead up to the vote. It's naive to think that didn't have a significant effect - the Express with immigration as its front-page news for years before the vote. The Mail obsessing over it, the Sun also. The TV news allowing itself to be taken over by Farage and his hateful bile, appearing here there and everywhere. Fucker was ubiquitous in the lead-up to the vote. People didn't need to vote UKIP to be swayed by these arguments into voting leave.
Problem is, as soon as this kind of thing is mentioned, you are jumped on on here for criticising the 'racist thickoes', but is anyone seriously suggesting that the media and the propaganda of political parties and pressure groups has no effect?
Raheem
Well-Known Member
But we know it's not them that are special and know what's best for everybody, don't we?
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
A third of leave voters amounts to about 15 per cent of the electorate. Of course UKIP voters were gonna vote leave. Meanwhile EU builds a wall near enough 7 times longer than the third longest wall in the world(Berlin wall) to keep Europe white and what? Can I count all pro EU voters as racist? They built an actual fucking wall.
I’ve called out UKIP most of my adult life, call out UKIP then. Don’t fucking lump the rest of us in with UKIP.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Ive even tried to turn Robert Smith into an anarchist, he did once say drunk SO I GUESS WE ALL HAVE THE SAME POLITICS THEN and I was like mate, nah. But maybe one day. And then Orkney will be UKIP free haha
#pipedreams
#pipedreams
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm not lumping you in with anyone. But if fewer people had been concerned about immigration, leave would have lost, whatever your reasons for voting leave were. Take out the racists, as judged conservatively at around the 5-6 percent that the BNP got at its peak, and leave doesn't get a majority. To be in a majority, those that voted leave for non-racist reasons need the racist vote to be counted with theirs.
I personally don't give much of a shit about one percentage point or two either way in a vote, but I am sick of hearing (not from you necessarily) about a majority voting leave so we should shut up about it. Well to those who say that, you need the racist vote to be in a majority. You happy to make that statement? That ought to be a non-starter of an argument.
And where did the majority of the racist attacks in the aftermath of the vote happen? They happened in majority remain areas, ethnically diverse areas that have always had racist cunts living in them, and where those racist cunts were, even if only briefly perhaps, empowered by that fucking vote. People on here often try to dismiss London perspectives. But I would suggest that you should consider here a London perspective on this shitfest a bit, think about why it is that so few poor black people voted leave. A section of the population probably least likely to think of itself as 'European'.
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