Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[DotCommunist]

Thanks for the smear of racism by the way.

 

[butchersapron]

See 5953

A post in the future - l look forward to it.

I've added to my post but i may as well add it here as well:

Also, the people who aren't most people - companies who get direct un-elected representation on EU bodies above what 'most people' get - what of them? Isn't that akin to - or worse - than your dreaded House of Lords?

 

[butchersapron]

You may wish to read back and get things right.
'Pathetic'?
As I said earlier playing the man not the ball.

There is no ball.

 

[Winot]

It's been claimed, but not sure it's actually been demonstrated.

As far as I can see, however, whatever the WTO says, it's the EU regs which would require a hard border to control what goods go into the EU and 'protect' all EU countries (not just Eire) from 'contamination'

Article here which sets out implication of WTO rules. Which bit of this is inaccurate?

 

[mojo pixy]

How might you realistically and practically use this opportunity to resolve the Irish border problem so that it satisfies those who voted brexit to regain control?

I personally favour a united Ireland which, as stated, would solve the "Irish border problem" in one fell swoop. It would at the same time turn the "problem" into a far more transparent British Nationalist problem, which IMO would be easier to deal with anyway.

I recognize this is unlikely to be the actual solution employed, but that's hardly my fault.

 

[philosophical]

Enumerate the many ways please.

Also, the people who aren't most people - companies who get direct un-elected representation on bodies above what 'most people' get - what of them? Isn't that akin to - or worse - than your dreaded House of Lords?

Certainly not worse. If you say anybody 'gets direct unelected representation' how does that happen, do they get appointed or smash down the door and seize a seat at the table?

 

[butchersapron]

Certainly not worse. If you say anybody 'gets direct unelected representation' how does that happen, do they get appointed or smash down the door and seize a seat at the table?

They are invited to be part of the planning of the EU and how it operates - of how we are told to live. Did you really not know this?

 

[philosophical]

I personally favour a united Ireland which, as stated, would solve the "Irish border problem" in one fell swoop. It would at the same turn the "problem" into a far more transparent British Nationalist problem, which IMO would be easier to deal with anyway.

I recognize this is unlikely to be the actual solution employed, but that's hardly my fault.

I don't know if you voted in the referendum, or which way, but what are the practical steps you would now take to bring about a United Ireland with substantial consensus?
My personal opinion is that the brexit vote is an obstacle in the way of any decent progression for Ireland.

 

[philosophical]

They are invited to be part of the planning of the EU and how it operates - of how we are told to live. Did you really not know this?

Invited by who?

 

[butchersapron]

Invited by who?

Have a guess - is it you via your democratic input?

 

[butchersapron]

Oh you poor naive thing - you really didn't know did you?

 

[Winot]

Article here which sets out implication of WTO rules. Which bit of this is inaccurate?

And here is the WTO on this topic.

 

[mojo pixy]

I don't know if you voted in the referendum, or which way, but what are the practical steps you would now take to bring about a United Ireland with substantial consensus?
My personal opinion is that the brexit vote is an obstacle in the way of any decent progression for Ireland.

You do know how I voted, because I posted that just before.

I appreciate what you think you're trying to do but it's not up to me (or anyone here) to come up with a plan for Irish unification. Any more than it's up to you to come up with a plan for making the EU into something worth being in.

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[krtek a houby]

I don't know if you voted in the referendum, or which way, but what are the practical steps you would now take to bring about a United Ireland with substantial consensus?
My personal opinion is that the brexit vote is an obstacle in the way of any decent progression for Ireland.

The majority Unionist population is the real obstacle, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

[kabbes]

The nature of the Good Friday Agreement is a clue here.
Are you suggesting that the brexit vote was an offer by the UK to have a United Ireland?

I'm simply saying that one solution to the border issue is to create a reunified Ireland. Or, if the ROI don't want reunification, for them to make that plain, and thus for the ROI to put a hard border in place in line with their own wishes, which ends the whole border discussion.

I'm not saying this will happen, nor am I saying it is "what people voted for" (as if every decision needed to create Brexit each had its own tick-box). I'm just saying it is a solution. It is never the case that there are no solutions, it's just that the solution set that people are willing to consider is restricted ideologically. That's fine, but lets have that ideology front and centre.

 

[not-bono-ever]

there is very little possibility of a united ireland and even less possibility of either side confirming this

 

[andysays]

I'd be interested to hear more about this.

I'm on my phone ATM, but there was an article on the BBC website at the weekend where TM was saying she didn't want a hard border but the Irish FM was saying one would be necessary the reason I mentioned.

(All this of course assuming a formal agreement can't be reached)

 

[kabbes]

there is very little possibility of a united ireland and even less possibility of either side confirming this

The fact that both sides are ideologically committed to keeping NI as part of the UK is really not my fault. I was asked for my preferred solution and I have given it. Where is my tick box referendum that I might vote for this, in line with the apparent need to vote for all elements of Brexit?

 

[butchersapron]

there is very little possibility of a united ireland and even less possibility of either side confirming this

Bur suddenly interested parties - ones who previously had nothing to say whatsoever about partition or border - insist that it is at the forefront of their minds, the thing that keeps them up at night. Some of them even have irish passports and brothers who've been to ireland.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm on my phone ATM, but there was an article on the BBC website at the weekend where TM was saying she didn't want a hard border but the Irish FM was saying one would be necessary the reason I mentioned.

(All this of course assuming a formal agreement can't be reached)

A customs union won’t help – there is no such thing as a ‘soft’ Brexit | Vernon Bogdanor

 

[krtek a houby]

there is very little possibility of a united ireland and even less possibility of either side confirming this

Not at this moment in time, for sure. The DUP/tory alliance has set that particular goal back years. IMHO.

 

[kabbes]

See 5953

OK...

there is very little possibility of a united ireland and even less possibility of either side confirming this

Hmm. Not sure how that related to your point, but so be it.

 

[andysays]

Article here which sets out implication of WTO rules. Which bit of this is inaccurate?

Thanks, I'll have a read and then respond later

 

[pocketscience]

Article here which sets out implication of WTO rules. Which bit of this is inaccurate?

Mad when you think about it. Eu sets >50% tariffs on Lamb and beef to protect EU farmers. And here are the Irish, who's Beef & lamb farmers export largely to the UK, playing hard ball on behalf of the EU ideologists.
Walk away and the Irish suffer while the UK consumers prices sink.

Unless I missing something obvious that IT article still doesn't demonstrate the border impacts of a zero tariff UK scenario (equal treatment for all) which kind of undermines its main argument.

 

[butchersapron]

Mad when you think about it. Eu sets >50% tariffs on Lamb and beef to protect EU farmers. And here are the Irish, who's Beef & lamb farmers export largely to the UK, playing hard ball on behalf of the EU ideologists.
Walk away and the Irish suffer while the UK consumers prices sink.

Unless I missing something obvious that IT article still doesn't demonstrate the border impacts of a zero tariff UK scenario (equal treatment for all) which kind of undermines its main argument.

Sort of suggests that there's something else at play here doesn't it?

 

[philosophical]

Have a guess - is it you via your democratic input?

Yes. If those doing the inviting are elected.

 

[kabbes]

Yes. If those doing the inviting are elected.

Democracy-squared

 

[stethoscope]

Article here which sets out implication of WTO rules. Which bit of this is inaccurate?

Just to point out, this the above is an abridged version of the this opinion piece from the FT.

But even from the comments under that article, it seems there's plenty of disagreement about it.

 

[philosophical]

You do know how I voted, because I posted that just before.

I appreciate what you think you're trying to do but it's not up to me (or anyone here) to come up with a plan for Irish unification. Any more than it's up to you to come up with a plan for making the EU into something worth being in.

You do know how I voted, because I posted that just before.

I appreciate what you think you're trying to do but it's not up to me (or anyone here) to come up with a plan for Irish unification. Any more than it's up to you to come up with a plan for making the EU into something worth being in.

I apologise if I missed it, but if you voted brexit I do see it being up to you I'm afraid.
If not the brexiteers, then who?