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Is Brexit actually going to happen?

Will we have a brexit?


  • Total voters
    362
Have you ever heard the maxim that every problem is an opportunity? I'm guessing you're not a huge fan of that one :D
How might you realistically and practically use this opportunity to resolve the Irish border problem so that it satisfies those who voted brexit to regain control?
 
How about politicians. The voters have done there bit. What are you and your fellow leavers doing about austerity within the eu ? A fairy godmother won't stop the debt.
I pay taxes and would be happy to pay double. I would additionally be happy for those on low income to not pay taxes at all.
 
That's just a bizarre linkage. What have you get next for us, you are amazed at those who thought it was a good idea for United to buy back Paul Pogba didn't think about the Forth Rail Bridge disaster?

More importantly, you've just got it wrong in your interpretation about what the brexit vote was. Yes, clearly, it was going to at the very least pose questions about border arrangements - just as it was going to pose questions about much of our relationship with the rest of the world (diplomatic, economic etc). All pretty obvious. But a referendum isn't an exam paper where everyone needs to bring along their blueprints for the very things that they have no control over. People voted for/against brexit for complex reasons, on both sides. They were entirely rational reasons, reflecting their experiences over decades, their identity and all sorts of specifics. But you seem to take it that if someone didn't enter the voting booth with worked out scenarios on tax, borders or God knows what that they are idiots. Life just isn't like that - why would people have bloody worked out position papers on things that they are never consulted on and never have a say in - and still don't.

To take an example, the Northeast devolution referendum - I voted against it. I thought Labour were being cynical, detested them and thought John Prescott was a wanker - along with the fact the powers on offer were minimal. My vote was a bit of straight political schadenfreude. Does that mean I'm forever open to people whining at me for my short sightedness and making me personally responsible for the North-South divide. I'd say not. I made one of my rare forays into the voting booth (well, postal vote) and my vote represented a real thing, even if I hadn't given a moments thought to the minor representative role that some Labour hack Northeast Tzar would have wielded.

Edited: typos!
The brexit vote is 'interpreted' to mean many things. You may think my interpretation is wrong fair enough, but does it make your interpretation right? Very probably not.
You ask why people ought to have thought things through before the vote, well brexit voters constantly say they knew what they were voting for so my answer to that is tell us the details of the land border in Ireland then if you knew what you were doing. A brexit referendum is a one time event unlike a general election every five years, the Good Friday Agreement is an international treaty. Brexit voters wanted it, knew what they were doing, but surprise surprise practical solutionx are either a secret or for others to do the dirty work.
Whatever motivated voters doesn't matter now the damage is done what matters is for brexit voters to reveal the solutions they had in mind. Brexit voters abdicating responsibility put me in mind of Marie Antoinette saying 'let them eat cake'. You write above that voters didn't have a say, yes they did they had a vote and used it. And brexit won. In my view it is 100% down to all those brexit voters to reveal their solutions to the problems.
 
The UK government employs civil servants for this kind of stuff. It's not the fault of the voters that the government gave them inadequate time and insufficient means to prepare for a Brexit result.
I disagree, brexit voters continually say they knew what they were voting for, and it is insulting to say they didn't.
Are you saying then, that brexit voters actually didn't know what they were doing?
 
The whole Irish border question would be solved by reunifying Ireland. There, job done. Of course that has other problems, but so does staying in the EU. There is never an answer to anything that satisfies everyone.
That might be a solution, however it would create other problems. If it happened because the UK voted brexit then it is an imposition on the people in the republic who didn't get to vote.
 
I disagree, brexit voters continually say they knew what they were voting for, and it is insulting to say they didn't.
Are you saying then, that brexit voters actually didn't know what they were doing?

They did know what they were voting for. They were voting on whether the UK should remain a member of the EU. It's the job of the politicians and civil servants to sort out the details. That's what we pay our taxes for, is it not?
 
So people in the UK have to stay in the EU because people in the ROI don't want to be in a united Ireland?
So people in the ROI have to dance to the tune of UK brexit voters without having any say themselves?
Yesterday you were complaining about the nature of EU democracy yet this answer suggests denying the people of the republic any democracy.
 
They did know what they were voting for. They were voting on whether the UK should remain a member of the EU. It's the job of the politicians and civil servants to sort out the details. That's what we pay our taxes for, is it not?
So if the ballot paper asked if people wanted eternal life and that won it would be down to the civil servants to deliver? If they then said it isn't possible all bets are off, status quo would you accept that?
Nothing other than a completely open border is deliverable, is that the 'will of the people'?
The Irish border question might seem a mere detail to any colonial minded, and indeed racist minded Briton, but in my experience it is a situation that demands more than the casual distain brexit voters give it.
 
So people in the ROI have to dance to the tune of UK brexit voters without having any say themselves?
Well, yes. That's the nature of sovereign states. People in a state can make a decision to benefit themselves and people in other states then make their own decisions accordingly.
Yesterday you were complaining about the nature of EU democracy yet this answer suggests denying the people of the republic any democracy.
The people of the ROI have their own right to decide to deny reunification. This is a perfectly acceptable outcome, but it means that they have to actually front up and state that this is what they want. You're suggesting a have-their-cake-and-eat-it approach, in which they get to simultaneously act as if a united Ireland is desirable but not actually want a united Ireland. If the ROI don't want reunification, why are we even debating the problems of a divided Ireland?
 
So if the ballot paper asked if people wanted eternal life and that won it would be down to the civil servants to deliver? If they then said it isn't possible all bets are off, status quo would you accept that?
Nothing other than a completely open border is deliverable, is that the 'will of the people'?
The Irish border question might seem a mere detail to any colonial minded, and indeed racist minded Briton, but in my experience it is a situation that demands more than the casual distain brexit voters give it.

There's no need for a referendum on eternal life. Biologists worldwide are already working on the problem, or at least beginning to.

If the people on either side of the Irish border aren't interested in closing it, then who the fuck are the EU to say otherwise? Brussels' intransigence will be their undoing.
 
of course when the matter is settled, as it will be, we'll move onto the next thing thats deffo a crises and the sky can fall in all over again. Columns in the guardian will be written. Shall we have a guess on which one comes next? single market rows within both parties?. Less than a year to go as well so they'd best get on it.
 
If the people on either side of the Irish border aren't interested in closing it, then who the fuck are the EU to say otherwise? Brussels' intransigence will be their undoing.

Why does this keep getting repeated on here? It’s been pointed out multiple times that it is international trade rules (determined by the WTO) that requires border checks.
 
Why does this keep getting repeated on here? It’s been pointed out multiple times that it is international trade rules (determined by the WTO) that requires border checks.

Why aren't they happening already then? I don't think you know what "required" means.
 
Well, yes. That's the nature of sovereign states. People in a state can make a decision to benefit themselves and people in other states then make their own decisions accordingly.
The people of the ROI have their own right to decide to deny reunification. This is a perfectly acceptable outcome, but it means that they have to actually front up and state that this is what they want. You're suggesting a have-their-cake-and-eat-it approach, in which they get to simultaneously act as if a united Ireland is desirable but not actually want a united Ireland. If the ROI don't want reunification, why are we even debating the problems of a divided Ireland?
The nature of the Good Friday Agreement is a clue here.
Are you suggesting that the brexit vote was an offer by the UK to have a United Ireland?
 
There's no need for a referendum on eternal life. Biologists worldwide are already working on the problem, or at least beginning to.

If the people on either side of the Irish border aren't interested in closing it, then who the fuck are the EU to say otherwise? Brussels' intransigence will be their undoing.
I see it as the UK wanting a border, the brexit vote frequently being declared as a method of regaining control of the border.
Who are the UK voters to say what the Irish should accept?
 
of course when the matter is settled, as it will be, we'll move onto the next thing thats deffo a crises and the sky can fall in all over again. Columns in the guardian will be written. Shall we have a guess on which one comes next? single market rows within both parties?. Less than a year to go as well so they'd best get on it.
I don't share your faith that the matter will be settled, but you say it will be, do you want to say how?
 
That's very noble of you but it won't solve the debt issues. Just throw money at it and let the eu carry on as it is :facepalm:

That's already the case isn't it.
I think your use of the word 'let' is a problem for me. I would use the fully available and decent EU democratic structures to try to resist what I wouldn't want to 'let' happen. I certainly wouldn't expect others to do it for me.
 
I think your use of the word 'let' is a problem for me. I would use the fully available and decent EU democratic structures to try to resist what I wouldn't want to 'let' happen. I certainly wouldn't expect others to do it for me.
You voted for them therefore you voted for more of the same.
 
Depends on if, or what kind of a trade agreement is put in place, no?

Yes that's true in that the extent of the tariffs and agreements on stuff like how chlorinated a chicken can be will determine the extent of the checks. But if we leave the SM/CU then the resulting deal will never be as frictionless as before. So there will be checks.
 
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